Re: Legion TD Mega v3.4 is released

**HuanAk** Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:41 pm

I can confirm that Meridian also bug in arena.

**NERV** Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:13 pm

HuanAk wrote:
I can confirm that Meridian also bug in arena.

Well, I tried a few times in debug mode, and they didn't bug once (only bug when I use anti-stuck on them). Could be my luck too.

I just edited my other post,please read.

**HuanAk** Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:17 pm

Another thing, during regular levels, right after the level start, meridian/fenix/seer of darkness uses their mana shield, wait like 1~3 secs, and start moving to the teleport, end up being killed by creeps. Same with Oracle(healer from demi).

yes, any fighter that cast spell after teleport or spawning will cancel my pathing rules (eg, I make them "stand still").

I need to add more rule for this new pathing. as well as re-write anti-stuck

and you can't turn off auto guard, the skill on "building" do not link with "fighter", because building & fighter are two difference object.

I will update "known bug" on first post

lots of spell are broken because I re-write the spell in JASS
lots of tooltip are missing because I use new map compression method (it will delete any default spell/unit, and only keep custom spell/unit. so I have to change all spell use inside this game to "custom", and may miss some of them)

acmepc3 Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:02 pm

theres a thing um.. it doesnt really matters but.. when u upgrade unit and cancel it,then it get about 2x bigger Very Happy

VoiceInMind Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:36 am

Thrall's hammer dsnt work, but eat mp.

**HuanAk** Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:33 am

VoiceInMind wrote:Thrall's hammer dsnt work, but eat mp.

I see, Thrall's spell are very similar to Druid's lightning. and it broken after this new map compression tool.

I will check the fighter with similar spell.

**HuanAk** Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:20 am

~~Beta 9 is fake version !~~

I only upload my map to The Hive Workshop.

map from other site (like Epicwar) may be fake (because it can upload by anyone).

**NERV** Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:09 pm

HuanAk wrote:
yes, any fighter that cast spell after teleport or spawning will cancel my pathing rules (eg, I make them "stand still").

I need to add more rule for this new pathing. as well as re-write anti-stuck

Hmm, I see. I'm not familiar with coding or anything, but what if you set a "rule" for them, forcing them to not use skills until some enemy creep gets into their range? That way they will wait for use his skill and perhaps make them "stand still" until they engage. Anyway, not sure if this is possible.

HuanAk wrote:
and you can't turn off auto guard, the skill on "building" do not link with "fighter", because building & fighter are two difference object.

hmm, idk, but this doesn't bother me atm, I never turn off his skill, but I think its cool to have a skill you can turn on/off. meanwhile, you could change his skill to something like cavalier skill: "XX% chance do reduce ranged damage taken by Y" or "XX% chance do reduce pierce damage taken by Z". What you think, that's too much trouble? This bug is not a really game breaker bug.

HuanAk wrote:
I will update "known bug" on first post

lots of spell are broken because I re-write the spell in JASS
lots of tooltip are missing because I use new map compression method (it will delete any default spell/unit, and only keep custom spell/unit. so I have to change all spell use inside this game to "custom", and may miss some of them)

Ok, I'll keep looking for them.

Btw, what are your thoughts about undead units balance? just asking.

**HuanAk** Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:07 pm

if the game is simple, with only few spell casting, then you can add very complex spell in it without lag.

but you can't do that in Legion TD, it have :
- 600 difference unit
- 428 difference ability
- 150 difference buff

and half of them happen at same time, eg for 4v4 :
- 250-350 creep spawning at same time
- 100-200 fighter spawn (and
- 100-200 building become invisible ( watch replay, and you can see lots of colorful dot on map, but can't see any unit ? it is invisible building)

so, all ability must be really simple with 0 rule to avoid lag.

for Guard, I just call it active "guard" when fight start, so it will run really quick without check every single rules.

for Bigfoot, I will let it happen in air wave, because don't want to add more rule, and you need AE to kill summon anyway Smile

can't comment on Undead balance, getting busy again to fix those bug, so I can't play enough to find out.

possible change for undead :
- Meat wagon/war machine should do more direct damage, with minor splash as bonu (like Mecenary's first unit)
- The Butcher can lifesteal.
- Death Dragon reduce splash damage, increase direct damage.

**NERV** Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:39 pm

HuanAk wrote:
for Guard, I just call it active "guard" when fight start, so it will run really quick without check every single rules.

I've read your post, and I have an idea. What if you make "mana shield" work like "guard"? that way meridian/seer/fenix won't move i guess.
You can make it auto-cast spell, so that way newbies won't have to push it?

I know that won't solve Oracle problem.

HuanAk wrote:
for Bigfoot, I will let it happen in air wave, because don't want to add more rule, and you need AE to kill summon anyway

I guess this can help a little demi against air lvls. Or not.

HuanAk wrote:
possible change for undead :
- Meat wagon/war machine should do more direct damage, with minor splash as bonu (like Mecenary's first unit)
- The Butcher can lifesteal.
- Death Dragon reduce splash damage, increase direct damage.

Cool. I like the idea of Butcher with life steal. If you remove life steal from ghoul,would be nice if you give him a debuff, something like Defiler (T1 from marine), since death dragon ins't supposed to slow.

I think I may be useful if you need another beta tester, I have plenty of time.

**HuanAk** Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:28 pm

NERV wrote:
HuanAk wrote:
for Guard, I just call it active "guard" when fight start, so it will run really quick without check every single rules.

I've read your post, and I have an idea. What if you make "mana shield" work like "guard"? that way meridian/seer/fenix won't move i guess.
You can make it auto-cast spell, so that way newbies won't have to push it?

I know that won't solve Oracle problem.

HuanAk wrote:
for Bigfoot, I will let it happen in air wave, because don't want to add more rule, and you need AE to kill summon anyway

I guess this can help a little demi against air lvls. Or not.

HuanAk wrote:
possible change for undead :
- Meat wagon/war machine should do more direct damage, with minor splash as bonu (like Mecenary's first unit)
- The Butcher can lifesteal.
- Death Dragon reduce splash damage, increase direct damage.

Cool. I like the idea of Butcher with life steal. If you remove life steal from ghoul,would be nice if you give him a debuff, something like Defiler (T1 from marine), since death dragon ins't supposed to slow.

I think I may be useful if you need another beta tester, I have plenty of time.

Oracle & Pheonix's pathing is fixed

Druid & Thrall is fixed, but spell won't be instant cast ( all orb spell are broken atm, and all "orb" spell are instant cast)

don't have time to create new ability for dead dragon, but I think Dead dragon should be stronger magic than live dragon, because it is wither ancient dragon of same type or Dracolich. (live dragon have nothing special rather than "dragon breath")

for beta tester, I am posting to public atm because I can get response so fast. (but I will have to work harder to do quick fix if major bug found Sad

)

**NERV** Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:56 pm

HuanAk wrote:
Oracle & Pheonix's pathing is fixed

Druid & Thrall is fixed, but spell won't be instant cast ( all orb spell are broken atm, and all "orb" spell are instant cast)

don't have time to create new ability for dead dragon, but I think Dead dragon should be stronger magic than live dragon, because it is wither ancient dragon of same type or Dracolich. (live dragon have nothing special rather than "dragon breath")

for beta tester, I am posting to public atm because I can get response so fast. (but I will have to work harder to do quick fix if major bug found )

OK, i found another bug. Its possible to use Holy light in "Archer/Elite Archer" Building from Paladin between rounds.

**HuanAk** Tue Sep 20, 2011 7:41 am

NERV wrote:
OK, i found another bug. Its possible to use Holy light in "Archer/Elite Archer" Building from Paladin between rounds.

I will check.

do builder lost "holy light" spell after heal on archer ?

**NERV** Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:23 pm

HuanAk wrote:
NERV wrote:
OK, i found another bug. Its possible to use Holy light in "Archer/Elite Archer" Building from Paladin between rounds.

I will check.

do builder lost "holy light" spell after heal on archer ?

Yes. maybe its possible to use heal on other units, I shall check.

**HuanAk** Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:53 pm

Holy Light can only cast on "structure", so I may accident to "tick" archer/elite archer as "structure"

only King are structure atm

**NERV** Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:01 pm

HuanAk wrote:Holy Light can only cast on "structure", so I may accident to "tick" archer/elite archer as "structure"

only King are structure atm

~~I see, well I've found another units with "structure", lemme finish searching first.~~

- Units with "heal bug":
Archer/Elite Archer
Disciple/Messiah
Seer/Fenix
Meatwagon/War Machine
Zombie
Goblin Scientist and upgrades
Nightsaber
Druid and upgrades
Wyvern/Wind rider

Would be nice if when we use -restart while in debug mode, we get another charge of heal.

Also, found some minor bugs:

- Goblin:
Assault tank: Clockwreck jumps out with mana regen, but the regulars Clockwrecks doesn't have mana regen. (???)
(Steam Roller): Isn't supposed to Clockwreck jump out instead of Geomancer.

- Elf:
Nightsaber: it has mana, but they don't have skill anymore.

Yesterday I was playing, then yellow player left right after the wave started, then after his creeps killed the entire wave, instead of going to protect the king, they just kept walking north/south right next to teleport until the end of round.

**HuanAk** Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:52 pm

NERV wrote:
HuanAk wrote:Holy Light can only cast on "structure", so I may accident to "tick" archer/elite archer as "structure"

only King are structure atm

~~I see, well I've found another units with "structure", lemme finish searching first.~~

- Units with "heal bug":
Archer/Elite Archer
Disciple/Messiah
Seer/Fenix
Meatwagon/War Machine
Zombie
Goblin Scientist and upgrades
Nightsaber
Druid and upgrades
Wyvern/Wind rider

Would be nice if when we use -restart while in debug mode, we get another charge of heal.

Wow, that lots, will add -reset command because there are already -restart

Also, found some minor bugs:

- Goblin:
Assault tank: Clockwreck jumps out with mana regen, but the regulars Clockwrecks doesn't have mana regen. (???)
(Steam Roller): Isn't supposed to Clockwreck jump out instead of Geomancer.

will check on mana regen, and Geomancer is right, because Clockwreck worth like 150gold, which is too much for Steamroller.

- Elf:
Nightsaber: it has mana, but they don't have skill anymore.

easy fix

Yesterday I was playing, then yellow player left right after the wave started, then after his creeps killed the entire wave, instead of going to protect the king, they just kept walking north/south right next to teleport until the end of round.

yes, I saw this before, I don't think it is matter, should be easy to fix.

**NERV** Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:55 pm

HuanAk wrote:Current Beta : Beta 8

- Krakken changes: add healing aura (+4 hp AOE)

Typo: kraken tolltip says he heals +3 per sec, does his heal stack with healer? Also, I think it may be healing only 3/sec atm.

HuanAk wrote:
- Level 20 Arena = 3x fre Turtle without collision.

Would be good if you give turtles unarmored armor.

HuanAk wrote:
- Level 13 is easier (remove 10% hp buff on level 13)

Not sure if this is working, lv13 has 115 hp since before beta.

Whats -cls supposed to do?
Using -start in single player without debug mode on, shows a typo :"[Single Player] Level Started" with a red "]".
I think -nm mode is conflicting with -gg. If set -nmgg, its like nm don't exist.

**HuanAk** Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:03 pm

-apnmgg work, so I don't know what you did

and Holy Light work on all "building" (you can heal your own tower if his hp is not full, eg when building is half way to finish)

Turtles been there for long time. It should be hard level as it is now.

healing aura do not stack, here is some simple rule for stack:

- if 2 skills have same buff icon with same name, then it won't stack
- if 2 skills have difference buff icon, then it will stack

healing aura do not have buff icon, but they all have same buff effect/graphic, so won't stack.

--------------

actuall I found more bug with spell not working.

please try find unit with those spell :
- spell that take mana to cast

**NERV** Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:57 pm

HuanAk wrote:
-apnmgg work, so I don't know what you did

That's odd, I used -apnmgg, and creeps give me bounty when killed in dark grass area.
Edit: just tested -apnm, and creeps still give me bounty in dark grass.

HuanAk wrote:
and Holy Light work on all "building" (you can heal your own tower if his hp is not full, eg when building is half way to finish)

Yep, I realize that while I was testing, forgot to mention it. But every tower I tested was "complete", since I use "warpten" cheat to build things fast, lol. Don't worry.

HuanAk wrote:
Turtles been there for long time. It should be hard level as it is now.

I was talking about turtles in arena, not the Turtle of lv 20. Since they don't have collision size anymore, it would be more fair if they were unarmored.

HuanAk wrote:
healing aura do not stack, here is some simple rule for stack:

- if 2 skills have same buff icon with same name, then it won't stack
- if 2 skills have difference buff icon, then it will stack

healing aura do not have buff icon, but they all have same buff effect/graphic, so won't stack.

Well, I was talking about kraken and hermit "heal aura", thought they would stack, since kraken heal +4/sec, my bad then.
(btw, healing aura from income does have a buff icon).

HuanAk wrote:
actuall I found more bug with spell not working.

please try find unit with those spell :
- spell that take mana to cast

I heard you saying druid was bugged and stuff, but i played a few games with elf and didn't notice anything unusual with him, his chain lighting seems OK. Same with phantoms.

I'm going to sleep now, I'll check this later, cya.

Also, just found out that Thrall building has 10 mana, and Thrall fighter has 15 mana.

**HuanAk** Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:38 am

build 1xDruid at level 1, and see if chain lightning work ?

however, it work in area, or king's area.

that is weird part about Warcraft's AI (eg, if I don't send fighter to attacking something, and let them automatic attack, then their AI will not reliable. this is what happen to Bigfoot didn't cast AE spell untill 1-2 hit later)

------

Update :

-NM mean Dark Green will have +1 armor.

all bug is fixed, I just play around with new spell, which can take a while. ( 1 spell can take few hours because : test --> modified --> re-test --> modified again --> test again --> not happy --> deleted spell --> create difference spell --> repeat same process again

One bug (not sure if it is bug or not)
- if you add "Computer", all creep from computer will give full bounty.

**NERV** Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:34 pm

HuanAk wrote:
build 1xDruid at level 1, and see if chain lightning work ?

however, it work in area, or king's area.

that is weird part about Warcraft's AI (eg, if I don't send fighter to attacking something, and let them automatic attack, then their AI will not reliable. this is what happen to Bigfoot didn't cast AE spell untill 1-2 hit later)

Yep, its not working on b8. I just watched my replay and i was playing b5. lol

HuanAk wrote:
Update :

-NM mean Dark Green will have +1 armor.

Hmm, are you sure? I guess -nm means no middle, in this mode creeps won't give bounty when killed in dark grass.
Since forever creeps get +1 armor when they reach middle, even if you play it only -ap. Used to be +3, i guess Lisk didn't like mid builds.

HuanAk wrote:
One bug (not sure if it is bug or not)
- if you add "Computer", all creep from computer will give full bounty.

Yeah, I heard some people talking about it, and it does give full bounty.

HuanAk wrote:
www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/maps-564/legion-td-mega-3-35-b8-194224/index8.html#post2011011

So, this mean that mana regen is only useful for units with mana shields? ):

**HuanAk** Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:00 pm

I give you some information, and you can do the math :

Hades : 60 mana, 1 mana / second ===> full mana in 60 seconds

Hades + mana regen = 1+ 60x5% = 1 + 3 = 4 mana/second ==> full mana in 15 seconds

Hade's pet is 50% of it total value ==> Hades can summon 4x more pet.
so, Hades become 2x time stronger with mana regen.

2x time stronger mean : Hades with mana regen is same as Hades with 100% damage aura

you can try the math on other spell like Bigfoot or Moon Guard.

--------------------

can you try add 1 computer, and see if player can reach level 30 with that free gold ?

**NERV** Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:27 pm

HuanAk wrote:
I give you some information, and you can do the math :

Hades : 60 mana, 1 mana / second ===> full mana in 60 seconds

Hades + mana regen = 1+ 60x5% = 1 + 3 = 4 mana/second ==> full mana in 15 seconds

Hade's pet is 50% of it total value ==> Hades can summon 4x more pet.
so, Hades become 2x time stronger with mana regen.

2x time stronger mean : Hades with mana regen is same as Hades with 100% damage aura

you can try the math on other spell like Bigfoot or Moon Guard.

You mistaken Lord of death with Hades. XD
Even so, LoD and his Infernal are really weak.
Hades can't summon more than one pet (and he usually dies before his pet), just the diabolic. Also Diabolic's pet die in like 2~3 hits in end game.
Moon guard has one of the useless skill in the game, 50 dmg in 5 target? lol.
I see your point, but imo, I don't see a point for cooldown, except maybe for bigfoot, his AoE is really good.

HuanAk wrote:
can you try add 1 computer, and see if player can reach level 30 with that free gold ?

ok, i'll try now.
But I guess that depends on the player ability, as well as the race. I'm pretty sure I can, not sure if everybody can. Anyway, I already did a game with beast that I hold red/blue lanes just by myself, I didn't use change builder, then I lost at lv20.

Edit: done. Got very lucky with rerolls thou, didn't leak once. Playing with 2 lanes is far ease than doing it with one lane.

Spoiler:

LTD MEGA 3.3 beta8 - Dual lane replay by NERV

**HuanAk** Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:46 pm

I though you should able to work out yourself :

Hades = 100 mana, 1.6/s ==> full mana in 66 seconds
Hades + 5% regen = 1.6 + 5 = 6.6/s ==> full mana in ?? seconds

Hades cost 680 gold, but the stat on Hades itself is similar to something cost 300 gold.

Test 1:
- try out 3.3 in single player game
- build just Hades + mana regen on level 31
- build around 18,000 value so it last longer
- count how many wave it last.

Test 2:
now, try again without mana regen, for same fighter value (180,000)

because I already add cooldown on my version, you should run Test 1 & 2 on Legion TD War 2.7 to find out why mana regen is so good.

remember:
Diabloic = similar to unit cost 250 gold (stronger than Nature's thunder Bird)
Imp = similar to unit cost 3x100 gold (350hp each, you have 3 of them)

That is why Hades is so OP because it have really good value for the cost.

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