Re: LegionTD Pro beta12 released - 23.12.2013.

LRN Sat May 05, 2012 1:44 pm

ok, now it's A7. Map-loading description still calls it "Revolution", but that's a minor bug.

dwarven Crossbowman is said to have 100 HP, but actually has 90 HP during the round.

LRN Sat May 05, 2012 5:33 pm

In Pro-a7-that-was-really-X3 initial lag warning worked as intended (appeared BEFORE the lag itself). In Pro-a7-that-is-actually-pro the warning appears only AFTER the lag.
Also, red player's mode scoreboard obstructs the warning text (not sure whether other players see that scoreboard or not).

**von_Oberstain** Sat May 05, 2012 11:25 pm

appearing whenever, this message will still stop "OMG"-based comments when players are actually able to type it Smile

but, yes, message needs to be displayed earlier - and probable culprit is that A7 is that Revo was derived from 'shared' map some time ago, where fix has been made

multiboard - well, i'm not really sure, people who try to explain typing of the string to newcomers may need it... on the other hand, few modes, namely:

-ni
-nm
-40 (perhaps, maybe temporary until it's shown how much EXACTLY people miss it - the waves are not-so-balanced, and legion lords ending replaces it better, at least as i see it. on that topic, old-style lords could be returning (intended that from the start), but new style, made of need, has some advantages, eg in not having uber-combo of shadow/ele/demi or similar, which always beats others, not that it's too much important in regular games, but tourneys teams were often based on this)

are to going to be removed, since nobody uses those. also -hg message (and X3 for revo) could as well be put somewhere else, so the multiboard will be 'only' half-a screen height

so, fix is needed, definitely

LRN Sun May 06, 2012 12:00 am

Troll Fighter (Beast) is stated to have no abilities in the tooltip, but he does have the aura, even without upgrade.

Adrenaline Rush and Adrenaline Increase (Troll Champion's and Troll Fighter's abilities) have identical tooltips. The tooltip for AR says that it doesn't stack with AI, but units have two different status icons, so it is not entirely clear whether this is true or not.

Also, saw the Meridian-walking-away bug again.

**von_Oberstain** Sun May 06, 2012 1:22 am

hmmm, they are still here (meridians)? i DID tried to fix it, most common fix for this is using a dummy-caster to actually cast a spell, so real unit won't 'lose focus' and starting a random 'voyage' into a direction unknown. sufficient to say, this spell works on dummies nicely on any map other than this one Sad

well, i'll have to find a way to make it work, or some other solution...

LRN Sun May 06, 2012 7:48 am

Also seen WEIRDEST bug today:
We started 3x3. Over the course of the game our enemies left, one by one. In the end we 3 were against no one (except the enemy king). The game didn't end in our victory, as you might have expected. Instead we kept playing. Since east side had no players, no creeps spawned there. And since their king was well-upgraded, he was able to withstand all summons that i've been sending. Also, some of my summons ended up on MY lane. They spawned with the creep wave and started to FIGHT that wave. Not all of them, only some. I would even get gold for their deaths (as if they were enemy summons, killed by my own units!). Anyway, eventually my noobish allies leaked level...24, AFAIR (lightning revenants), and so did i. Our king was not ready for that kind of pressure, and died. Enemy team (that consisted of zero players) won the match.

LRN Wed May 09, 2012 5:11 am

Tempest -> Leviathan upgrade tooltip claims that Leviathan has siege damage and the Shrapnel ability. Instead it has magic damage and lightning storm ability of some kind.

Flame Spirit is shown to have chaos damage between rounds, but has something else (normal + magic, i think) during the round.

Food upgrade button is named "Food Upograde".

Hybrid tier7 tooltip says "Trust the icon", when it should really say "trust the tooltip", because icon still shows it to be tier6.

It would be useful for units to have their stats not only their build/upgrade tooltips, but also as information on units themselves. The info should include unit cost. This will help Hybrid a lot, since Hybrid gets units at one cost, but they are sold at 50% of their normal (non-Hybrid) cost. Also, this will allow Hybrid to see DPS, attack speed, and other non-obvious stats that are only available for the race the unit normally belongs to.

What's up with all these weird names for units of new races? NR Tn 4-3a blah-blah - what does that mean? I've made a few guesses, but the names aren't consistent enough for me to come to any solid conclusions.

Also, tooltips for new races are much more colorful and well-written than those for old units. Key words are colored, descriptions include things like "good damage dealer" etc, abilities are sometimes described on the tooltips, and you can see them BEFORE upgrading/buying the unit.

LRN Thu May 10, 2012 12:41 am

Got a complaint from a player. He said that due to the fact that wisps are invisible, it is difficult to see the difference between 1 and 5 wisps (lumbergathering speed-wise). He proposed to add something that would show improvement you get for buying wisps or doing upgrades.
I think it would not hurt to bare the function used by the map to calculate lumber-per-second, maybe show it in the leaderboard or as a tooltip somewhere. It might look like this:
Lumber/s = 10 x 1.28 = 12.8 in lumps of 7
(where 10 is the number of wisps, 3.28 is the amount of lumber one wisp gathers per second, and 7 is the amount of lumber one wisp "carries" - the amount you actually get "per run"; obviously these numbers should change to reflect the number of wisps and the level of upgrade you have).

**von_Oberstain** Thu May 10, 2012 4:25 am

yeah, you're right... there should be indicator of lumbering efficiency - i was thinking something like
"x wips / upgrade y;
n wood / m seconds"

written above the base, but i'm open to suggestions, as long as they fit a message-type

one wisp/second gives rather small amount of wood, eg 0.24; 0,31 etc, so this wouldn't be best indicator...

hybrid - i don't think this can be done, at least not easily. icon - funny thing, i've actually made tier 7 icon, but of course forgot to change both icon and tooltip...

"NR Tn 4-3a" - means we're still in alpha Smile

"new race, twisted nat- probably will be removed soon, as the need to find an icon at VERY SMALL and VERY SIMILAR group of ~300 icons, in other words, it helps me and nobody else - keeps the icons for a race grouped instead scattered

yup, for new races i had to write new tooltips also, so i used accumulated experience...

btw, i am still working on map, but have some unexpected obligations, problems and so on, so it goes more slowly... and, being able to do one thing at a time, i opted for writing manual, and fixing major bugs as they are reported (with occasional releases, not as long as before, but say bi-weekly), leaving all eye-candies for future

LRN Fri May 11, 2012 7:41 am

Upgrade to Nightcrawler tooltop says he has "Stick Webs" ability, but he actually has "Necromancy"

LRN Fri May 11, 2012 8:25 pm

Would be nice to have more upgrades for low-level units. They should cost accordingly. Right now tier1 units are mostly worthless by level 7. Massing cheap units doesn't work due to space/aggro restrictions.

Also would be nice to be able to upgrade units to higher upgrades directly (for units that have more than one upgrade stage). For example, Peewee->Veteran, instead of Peewee->Soldier->Veteran. Maybe also change attack type/armor type more often when upgrading. That would allow for more unit combinations. The map should be more akin to some normal TDs (Elemental TD comes to mind), where you start with low-level towers, then upgrade them, and make some combinatory upgrades (depending on some factors) to get even more powerful towers; i.e. low-level towers are a starting point, not a temporary measure to survive until you get *real* towers.
Something like that.
Although that would make Hybrid extremely overpowered (or maybe not, i'm not sure).

**von_Oberstain** Fri May 11, 2012 10:41 pm

hmmm, low tiers are supposed to become less useful as the game progresses. agreeable, some of them aren't used at all in unupgraded form (more of the balancing question), but adding a in-between gradual upgrade would likely cause a balance problem, since it will rival tier 2 (to great extent, since tier 2 upgrade will always be ~100g and 2nd tier 1 ~50-70g). and, yes, i share your concerns regarding hybrid

attack/armour type change - well, maybe not immediately, but general idea is in projected line of map development - limited number of races, and "mirror-races" (like nature / corrupted nature). "mirror-races" are planned to exist on following principles:
- chose one OR another, after choosing base nature race
- get random "mirror race" after choosing base nature race
- get BOTH builders, as in -db mode (this is where *some* attack/armour variations are possible, but not too many and mainly in case that particular combo is weaker than others, so it need a boost which isn't affecting neither of individual races, but only a combo)

(controlled by mode chosen at start, of course)

but this is a very-long time plan, and needs significant balancing (partial reason why is corrupted nature a separate race at this moment) and well... making all those altered races. but it should give opportunity to have larger number of unit types at disposal, and NOT luck based, while still having most advantages/disadvantages of main race and therefore keeping its uniqueness

having straight upgrades is a good idea, unfortunately requiring many more units made, since cost of upgrade will be different (or handling via triggers, somewhat easier but representing additional source of potential buy/sell bugs)

oh, and there be a bugfix release today, for both maps - mainly bugs and missing icons - in fact, i'm working on it right now... special interested is meridian bug (and dark priest and druid - if i remember correctly they were mentioned also in this context, maybe not here but somewhere), and a *bit* of balance Revo Ranger/Forrest Spider nerf, Pro general changes in Watcher Ward / Serpent efficiency, Hrimthrusa buff (a long due), slight corrupted nature tier 1 hp nerf. more to come later...

EDIT: oh, aggro question - it can be easily mass-increased (in a 5 second time, really) but i would prefer to have some testing on how it will affect middle build...

ah, too much thing need to be done, and they are conflicting one another in time needed to complete Sad

LRN Sat May 12, 2012 5:07 am

Wendigo unit doesn't have a name during the round.

**von_Oberstain** Sat May 12, 2012 7:03 am

weird as it gets! pretty sure that it had a name before, i just typed it again and it works now... but this kind of strange map behavior is increasing, i'm afraid that it will collapse... for example, you cannot delete unused ability - editor crashes straight to desktop...

LRN Sat May 12, 2012 7:45 pm

I take it that there going to be release "tonight", but it is not yet known which tonight (at which date) it would be at?

**von_Oberstain** Sat May 12, 2012 9:00 pm

THIS date

EDIT: and if, by some strange development of events, i break deadline once again, then 13.05.2012. Smile

fact is that chaos legionaries/centurions HAD bug, requiring fixing the trigger - in fact, rewriting it several times from the start...

EDIT2:

LRN wrote:
dwarven Crossbowman is said to have 100 HP, but actually has 90 HP during the round.

fixed (to 100). also buffed hrimthusa to 300hp and fixed wrong listed damage.

LRN wrote:
Troll Fighter (Beast) is stated to have no abilities in the tooltip, but he does have the aura, even without upgrade.

Adrenaline Rush and Adrenaline Increase (Troll Champion's and Troll Fighter's abilities) have identical tooltips. The tooltip for AR says that it doesn't stack with AI, but units have two different status icons, so it is not entirely clear whether this is true or not.

fixed tooltips. pretty much sure that they don't stack, in wc3 higher level aura based on same basic ability just 'overpowers' the lower one, so they shouldn't stack. and if they do stack, i'll change the description - beast didn't strike me as OP race in current stage (oh, percentages were correct - 4% and 8%, only description wasn't)

LRN wrote:
Upgrade to Nightcrawler tooltop says he has "Stick Webs" ability, but he actually has "Necromancy"

fixed

and now, LEAST PROFESSIONAL THING EVER Smile

https://legiontd.forumotion.com/t305p15-balance-and-bug-thread

yup, no changelog at all, and even the limited data are divided in two threads - still better than having "bugfixes and small balance changes", though

yes, it will be released tonight (13.05.2012), but it took MUCH more time than anticipated (and isn't quite finished yet). on a brighter side there are speed improvements for chaos race, nothing spectacular, but still

**von_Oberstain** Mon May 14, 2012 8:25 am

forum rule: admins can double-post when they feel like it!

A8 released, download links updated

LRN Mon May 14, 2012 9:11 am

When red player picks hybrid, red player gets bright green square instead on the scoreboard instead of hybrid icon.

Saw random builder bug again (you get a moving question mark instead of a builder), on pink player.

"there will be a long lag" warning is still displayed AFTER the lag.

**von_Oberstain** Mon May 14, 2012 7:40 pm

hybrid:
couldn't reproduce it... i believe it did happen, but in my 20 repick/choose hybrid attempts icons were correct... guess hybrids will have to live with this for some more time

random:
i think it's finally fixed now - NEW LINK

lag message:
strange - message code is executed before everything else. on single player (red) where i've tested it, it showed always... is it for players other than red? (though it still shouldn't matter)

LRN Mon May 14, 2012 9:18 pm

von_Oberstain wrote:hybrid:
couldn't reproduce it... i believe it did happen, but in my 20 repick/choose hybrid attempts icons were correct... guess hybrids will have to live with this for some more time

Can't reproduce it either, had it only once.

von_Oberstain wrote:
lag message:
strange - message code is executed before everything else. on single player (red) where i've tested it, it showed always... is it for players other than red? (though it still shouldn't matter)

In Local Area Network game (where i've tested it), it is always shown after the lag. For red player.
Maybe you need to flush stdout or something? Smile

Also, i have different UI font set for Warcraft III, that might have an effect.

LRN Tue May 15, 2012 8:00 am

I have repeatedly seen Pnakotic mage not aggroing along with allied units when said mage is placed in the back row, and creeps have ranged attacks.
This can happen to any unit, but Pnakotic mage seems to be much more vulnerable to this sort of thing.

A_MHE_HACCATb Fri May 18, 2012 5:13 am

pls fix it https://2img.net/r/ihimg/photo/my-images/534/121212ga.png/

LRN Sun May 20, 2012 2:35 am

Father Dragon (upgrade from Chaos Rift) upgrade tooltip says that it has:
DPS: 9
Damage: 12
HitPoints: 90r
Attack type: Normal
All of that is not true.

LRN Mon May 21, 2012 4:51 am

Corrupted Nature is completely bonkers. It starts a fight normally, throwing heal roughly every 5 seconds. Then, at some point, Trees of Sacrifice and/or Blood Willows start healing everything around them non-stop, turning CN forces into unstoppable juggernauts of destruction.

LRN Mon May 21, 2012 5:07 pm

Certain units leave a "trigger" message floating in the air. Elf units, i think.

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