LegionTD Pro A10

**von_Oberstain** Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:32 am

As you may noticed, the activity around Legion TD Pro (X1) and Legion TD Revo (X3) is increased. Currently, there is A10 version of Pro, containing:
1. A new race – Twisted Mech
2. Balancing of Elite barracks
3. Fixing several Corrupted nature bugs, mainly spiders (being OP, and a bug that gave second upgrade way too strong poison)

Our new – in fact old, this is just his first announcement as admin, anyhow, Saucer is officially admin for all sub-forums, even MEGA – HuanAK made him the one in charge officially. But don't expect too much activity from him – his spare time is sparse, even more so than mine. Saucer is a friend, more interested in Revo than in Pro, and a master-programmer responsible for substantial improvements in game code, and exquisite bot-system which will launch soon (as-soon-as-it's-done), but will be a sight to behold – practically lag-less and based on much improved Ghost++ and containing other improvements which will probably everyone notice, but no one (except probably HuanAK) could understand – myself included.

Our new friend and admin Kongk will likely be more active, so feel free to suggest and ask and expect communication – much more than I used to do.

Legion TD Revo is a Kongk main field of interest, there is evolutionary vA9R3 – rather playable, but in need of balancing, and at the same time evolutionary vA10 which will introduce more additional units, race, new modes and many other improvements. But to hear it from the man himself, since he has done a tremendous amount of work on this.

Anyway, the last few months we've been quite busy, and results are nearing. Expect more in the future.

Sincerely,
von Oberstain

**Saucer** Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:14 am

Download latest map (beta 12):

(link)
mediafire.com/download/kia3fp68qctze2a/Legion%20TD%20Pro%20A10%20(b12).w3x

Edit [von Oberstain]: For what is worth, beta13 version of Pro was 'finished' a while ago, and this is the link:

https://mega.nz/#!5NlTUKqI!gN3MVolRGLSFyu7Pzy67vt-CnWZQ5KxoTZMUodrMRXY

A_MHE_HACCATb Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:51 pm

need fix pewee

LRN Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:57 pm

A_MHE_HACCATb wrote:need fix pewee

You forgot "to" after "need".
Also, "peewee" is spelled with two "ee"s.
And it would have been nice to have a pronoun before "need".

Anyway, what exactly is wrong with peewee?

LRN Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:04 am

Anyway, some obvious things that i'd like to see smoothed out:
1) The map shows up in the map list as "Legion TD Pro beta" with no indication of A10 or any version number. There is the release date in the description, but that is insufficient, IMO.
2) The map STILL shows the "and now i'm going to lag a bit to initialize stuff - don't freak out" message AFTER it lags. That confuses people, please fix it.

**Saucer** Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:49 am

A_MHE_HACCATb wrote:need fix pewee

Thank you. Could you tell us what is wrong with the peewee?

(it's okay if your english is not so good... just explain as well as you can)

LRN wrote:Anyway, some obvious things that i'd like to see smoothed out:
1) The map shows up in the map list as "Legion TD Pro beta" with no indication of A10 or any version number. There is the release date in the description, but that is insufficient, IMO.
2) The map STILL shows the "and now i'm going to lag a bit to initialize stuff - don't freak out" message AFTER it lags. That confuses people, please fix it.

Thank you for the feedback. I'll fix #1.

The #2 has been a topic of some discussion, but we'll probably do this differently somehow. If nothing else, we could make sure that the message comes first, then the lag, and then the "mode list" board.

But I would prefer that we move the preloading so that it occurs during the loading screen instead.

A_MHE_HACCATb Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:55 am

LRN, они меня поняли остальное неважно

peewee sometimes disappear from the map as soon as the wave goes
and remove wall from mid purp

**Saucer** Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:28 am

Ahhh okay, I understand. Thank you!

LRN Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:50 am

A_MHE_HACCATb wrote:LRN, они меня поняли остальное неважно

peewee sometimes disappear from the map as soon as the wave goes
and remove wall from mid purp

После "поняли" - запятая.
It's "disappears", not "disappear".
The wave "comes" or "starts", not "goes".
And i absolutely not get the "wall from mid purp" thing.

**von_Oberstain** Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:57 am

LRN wrote:Anyway, some obvious things that i'd like to see smoothed out:
1) The map shows up in the map list as "Legion TD Pro beta" with no indication of A10 or any version number. There is the release date in the description, but that is insufficient, IMO.
2) The map STILL shows the "and now i'm going to lag a bit to initialize stuff - don't freak out" message AFTER it lags. That confuses people, please fix it.

1) Well, it IS beta

2) Preloading of units is under current testing, may be changed to cause less lag or removed entirely. it is work in progress.

On reporting bugs:
'peewee disappears sometimes' is hardly enough. Mech wasn't changed for quite of time, and I've never saw it disappearing. A replay could be helpful, since most common mistake I can think of wasn't made. Whole peewee army passed lvl10 boss, and none disappeared. For fixing bugs, we need more info and possibly replay. From this input, all I can say is that I'll watch more closely my peewees in the future, and try to find when disappearing happens, but nothing more - code is correct and same as for any other unit in game.

Please supply more information on bugs in the future, it helps in locating and fixing them.

I think I have idea of what 'purple wall' means - some unit blockers need to be moved/added. The movement of units isn't natural, but it is fixable. I'm aware of this problem.

Also, please avoid flaming each other in the future - we should have a friendly discussion here, which currently we don't.

Sincerely,
von Oberstan

A_MHE_HACCATb Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:15 am

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B43px4b2S05aVVN3bG5OZnBDSUU
players say zeus too disappears

**Kongk** Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:38 pm

Hey

Thanks for reporting bugs and other things you find. We do appreciate it!!

I've actually found a bug in the code, which may cause Storm Trooper to disappear.. It may even add an upgrade to it, which shouldn't be a part of the Pro map.. Anyways, it will be fixed in the next patch Wink

Best Regards

Kongk

LRN Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:36 pm

By the way, a suggestion: release often. Don't make people wait for important fixes (fixes, not balance tweaks - balance can wait) for weeks. If release process is too cumbersome, try to find a way to automatize it.

Ideally there should be a git repo and a slave building nightlies regularly, but i can see how proprietary nature of the map may prevent that.

**Kongk** Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:59 pm

LRN wrote:By the way, a suggestion: release often. Don't make people wait for important fixes (fixes, not balance tweaks - balance can wait) for weeks. If release process is too cumbersome, try to find a way to automatize it.

Ideally there should be a git repo and a slave building nightlies regularly, but i can see how proprietary nature of the map may prevent that.

Yea.. I agree that frequent releases would be the best thing to do.. Things take time though, and we all have a life besides this Very Happy

You are right that very important fixes should happen immediately though.. Expecially if it is a bug that makes the game unplayable.. We will try to do this, if possible.. I have actually already fixed the Storm trooper bug i mentioned, but since it is Legion TD Pro, it's up to Oberstain to decide when the new release will come..

Best Regards

Kongk

**von_Oberstain** Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:36 am

Map is to remain proprietary, cause of huge number of abuse and fake versions which plagued 1.3-1.42 versions - usually trade-hacks.

Personally, I don't claim any rights on map, as long as I'm concerned it is made by Lisk and edited by eGze - I did a substantial amount of work, but claim no credits, except in helping.

Many things are happening simultaneously, now when we have more help, and it is hard to predict what will happen and when. Much under-hood work is done already, but it isn't visible at all - this explains some new bugs.

Ideally, map would be released in regular (monthly, bimonthly, maybe even less often) intervals, and all of them should be stable versions, ones people can get accustomed too.

Unfortunatelly, this is impossible currently - unnoticed bugs, tooltips, speed-improvement, bot/site system - it is all going at the same time. Through this 'extended' beta, goal is to get rid of all bugs and finish most important planned improvement. After that, the first "stable" version can get out, perhaps get quickfix or few.

So, general timeline is:

Beta -> undefined time, but playable all the way through. Fixes are released after major bugs are encountered (disappearing unit counts as one). Improvements and balances (as actually most easy to implement) go along.

"Stable" current version -> when it's ready

"Stable" version allows new and old players to get to know game, learn and develop tactics and increase playerbase. A happenings like tournaments or ranking ladder may be implemented on stable versions. Its importance is great.

Next version -> with added content, improvements, stability and support - don't expect less than few months. It is planned to be a major revision, so it will take a while - but it should be great and new experience, allowing quick learning for new players and still good rewards for experts, combining with modes which are less competitive and more fun to play (faster gameplay, random-but-announced in advance special events, luck-based mechanics - in all, stuff you won't ever find on tournament, but which may be relaxing and fun from time to time).

Next version betas will be available to testers, but map will lack key features, in order to avoid playing almost-finished beta over "stable" version

The map will never be "dumbed down", but some may recall that, through history, it gradually become harder and harder to learn:
- a sell price was reduced to 50%
- incomers were destroyed, not nerfed but destroyed
- same income system made few leaks at begining a matter of losing the game, which wasn't the case before
- hybrid - 80% players use it, making it impossible for new players to copy someones strategy

So, plan is also to 'ease a bit' game - experts don't lose anything, since they don't make mistakes anyway, and besides, few leaks on lvl2 shouldn't decide the game - this is my firm opinion. If everything goes right, map may have additional slots for observers, incomers may get a small buff and losing player may decide to stay in game and watch it

So, this is about it - at least six month plan.

New version with Zeus fixed will be posted soon.

LRN Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:57 am

von_Oberstain wrote:Map is to remain proprietary, cause of huge number of abuse and fake versions which plagued 1.3-1.42 versions - usually trade-hacks.

Will you change your mind if i release a modified version of beta A10 with an infinite gold cheat or something?

**Saucer** Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:04 am

LRN wrote:Will you change your mind if i release a modified version of beta A10 with an infinite gold cheat or something?

No, we will not. Stop acting like a jerk.

And yes, we know that maps can be deprotected and modified (that's how I continued working on 2.7c after eGze lost the open map).

Of course we don't want to encourage or make it easier for people to release maps with cheats or silly X8 modifications and so on, or make minor modifications and then call the map their own without giving proper credit, etc.

But there are also other reasons, such as keeping the development efforts coordinated and focused in the same direction. And if somebody wish to contribute construtively, then that's great and they should get in touch with us.

In fact, the Pro and Revo maps are exactly that: a coordinated effort. The maps cater to different audiences, but both maps benefit from the shared development of new races, modes, and other features.

If somebody wants to create their "own" version, then they can grab the 1.50 developer version.

LRN wrote:By the way, a suggestion: release often. Don't make people wait for important fixes (fixes, not balance tweaks - balance can wait) for weeks. If release process is too cumbersome, try to find a way to automatize it.

Ideally there should be a git repo and a slave building nightlies regularly, but i can see how proprietary nature of the map may prevent that.

Yeah, I like the "release early, release often" philosophy. However, we're all doing this in our limited sparetime, so things happend when we can find the time. But we'll try to push out releases on a regular basis.

Also, yes, git is a great tool and could be hosted privately. It just wouldn't work well in our particular case, but thank you for the suggestion.

Our workflow is optimized well enough as it is. The main time consumer is doing the actual work involved, inside the World Editor.

**Saucer** Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:14 am

I've posted a new download link for A10 beta 9.

Changes:

- Storm Trooper bug fixed
- Fixed the unbuildable area (the "wall") in purple/teal middle build area
- Default mode changed to -dbhg30
- Version number added to map title

**von_Oberstain** Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:29 am

LRN wrote:
von_Oberstain wrote:Map is to remain proprietary, cause of huge number of abuse and fake versions which plagued 1.3-1.42 versions - usually trade-hacks.
Will you change your mind if i release a modified version of beta A10 with an infinite gold cheat or something?

This is a typical reason for a permanent ban - this forum is meant for exchange of constructive suggestions, bug reporting and strategy discussion.

Blackmailing of team members and threats of piracy are not among these.

Instead of making threats, you could put yourself on something useful and be of some help. People's management is not among the fields we need help in - plan for future development is laid clearly in my last post, and may be changed, but not due to pressure or requests.

I'm considering this matter closed.

Sincerely,
von Oberstain

LRN Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:31 am

von_Oberstain wrote:
LRN wrote:
von_Oberstain wrote:Map is to remain proprietary, cause of huge number of abuse and fake versions which plagued 1.3-1.42 versions - usually trade-hacks.
Will you change your mind if i release a modified version of beta A10 with an infinite gold cheat or something?
This is a typical reason for a permanent ban - this forum is meant for exchange of constructive suggestions, bug reporting and strategy discussion.

Blackmailing of team members and threats of piracy are not among these.

What i actually meant is:
Will you change your mind if i prove (by some means) that your arguments about fakes/abuses (and other reasons/arguments that suddenly appeared after my post) do not hold?
(regardless of what the "means" are)

Also, it's "copyright infringement", not "piracy".

P.S. Not posting this for the sake of argument, as i don't want to be banned. Just wanted to make sure that you realize that i'm not trying to blackmail anyone (it kind of sucks when people think of you this way, and if i remain silent, you might think that exactly that way).

A_MHE_HACCATb Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:59 am

trade hack is not problem. ghost++ with action parser perfectly kicked from server all who use trade hack (thx saucer for code)

**Saucer** Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:08 pm

A_MHE_HACCATb wrote:trade hack is not problem. ghost++ with action parser perfectly kicked from server all who use trade hack (thx saucer for code)

Ah, good

I'm happy to hear that it is useful.

A_MHE_HACCATb Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:58 am

bug with disappearance peewee not fixed, and it has 290 hp for hybrid. and copy of maverick very strong

**Kongk** Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:07 am

A_MHE_HACCATb wrote:bug with disappearance peewee not fixed, and it has 290 hp for hybrid. and copy of maverick very strong

Hey.

Well, as Oberstain mentioned we would really like to see some kind of replay on that "disapearing peewee problem".. The code simply seems right..

Different peewee on hybrid - Thanks, found the bug and fixed it Wink

About the maverick thing - I don't really know anything about that.. Will leave that for others to comment

Best Regards

Kongk

A_MHE_HACCATb Tue Nov 12, 2013 1:38 pm

actually i gave a link to the replay https://legiontd.forumotion.com/t442-legiontd-pro-a10#3608

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