Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

Dunno if you're complaining about noblitz's or mine post, but everything I wrote was from friendly intentions. I've been interested in wc3 modding for like a decade and was involved in developing several maps (warcraft soccer for example) and I know how you guys feel alike. I know you're developing this thing because you like modding, legion and don't want let your community get apart, no matter you're running out of spare time by getting older like we all are. Also, I know every developer feels better if his effort is not in vain and his map remains popular and played by many people. That's exactly why I wrote the quoted stuff, because UC bot (the place where you host and play your map) is almost always empty for past few months, which used to run a new game every few minutes and was always filled with skilled players. I'm afraid most of those skilled players have already quit legion, because B8 was too dumb with new overpowered units and B11 was just unplayable due to well known issues, while it was to lame to go back to 3.41 and play against archers and blasters again, so they just stopped playing any legion. I have suggested you to make fixed B8 version with just few balance fixes, to keep players interested in the game until you make B11 replacement with new movement code and other big changes, instead of making them wait for more than a year and make all your work useless after you lose most players.
Before joining legion communities, I've been active at playing castle fight and visiting castle fight forums for like 2 years. They made the same mistakes as you did and I wanted to stop it happening here as well. Castle fight was also abandoned by original developer (gex), but it was already very fun and decently balanced game. It was popular for years, so over time 2 enthusiast guys appeared (vaaampir and elf stratigo) and made some changes to make game even more fun and also started to balance it. They did awesome job, but over time they ran out of spare time and stopped developing it. The last version had few huge balance problems, which was never fixed, so game remained unplayable, but it was improved so much, nobody found interesting to play official 1.14b anymore, so most of them just quit instead of playing unplayable one. Funny thing is version numbers remind me of legion story as well: 1.14b-3.41. I wrote you this story so you can prevent castle fight scenario before it's too late.

Don't know was this issue mentioned before. I will explain and post the replay just in case.

IF you are playing NS mode, it is possible to save large amount of wood easily by  build farm/cancel farm exploit. You can just spam vast number of farms with shift key and there you go, you saved 2000 wood despite NS auto send. So max number of farms should be 2 or even one but with changed step mehanics and max limit since 200 food limit is too small whether you reach it via disbalanced cross or well fed solo build.

Replay:Farm house quee exploit

Check out the green from level 15 until the end i think saving 800-2k for strong levels.

Other thing i wanted to mention, death dragons price being inappropriate. Ive said ill post some replays, but i stopped playing for a while so i forgot about it. But hey Ive got some replays for it.

This one is fresh, made it today just to post it here, it is PH mode.
PH

You can see how easy is to reach 7/11 or even 7/16 while we are at it. We achieved 32580+19165 value in the end, with a small error, thus we ended up with spare 1.5k gold on Vlad's side which he couldn't spend because the food limit.

The other one is a bit older but i grabbed it from replay folder. Here we are playing PHOS mode, thus we were a bit more careful here and there , but result is the same. PHOS

The thing which is also noticeable in both games is the already mentioned bad path finding on 31-35 where units get blocked on one side making it imbalanced. But, here is one fresh thing Ive noticed. I understand that in both relays the losing side has too many flying units, we built them on purpose. But this split which happens in fact happens even if majority of your force are ground or mixed units. SO, if you have a lot of value, you are always going to end up with a split and usually lose in 31-35. Even if played solo. There were games where my team had 15-20k more of combined value and never the less lost because of split.


About the misunderstanding which happened in previous posts. We are waiting since February for the new release? Right?  But that doesn't really matter, it is not a problem, we will gladly wait for the new quality release and support developers, even if its only with words. We support you guys.

But where is the problem. B8 is barely playable since late game is too easy and 90% of the games ended up with the RMK after level 20. It lasted for some time and people lost interest in it. B11 is almost entirely unplayable, i don't even know why are we hosting it. By-pass solution would have been a revision of B8 with enhanced 21-30. No new features.  Just that simple 21-30 boost while we were waiting for the new goodies from your dedicated team. But, that didn't happen.

Situation is this. One year ago, i had dozens of dedicated LTD players in friend list, playing regularly. Now, there are only 3. People lost interest. Number of players is decaying on hosts who host b versions. They either stopped playing or they went to ENT, i don't know.

You've mentioned bot service? If its the only thing which is delaying the map, then we can host it on suchbot. We have a high quality bot solution already.

P.S About the death dragons, there is even a solo play pattern, with it it is possible to survive level 7 with 780 value. It is not as effective as cross or mid solutions but it is still too much.

NoHeal4u wrote:You've mentioned bot service? If its the only thing which is delaying the map, then we can host it on suchbot. We have a high quality bot solution already.

Agreed

Also I have to add that suchbot only hosts legion td mega. No other maps. So basically, suchbot supports you.

Since we mention suchbot, I have a proposition (kind of a support) to make...
I run suchbot on a decent enterprise class dedicated server which has 3 basic virtual machines to run the bot, the database and the web without interference from one another while having temporary resource spikes. I have lots of space and bandwidth that I don't really use. And I pay quality bucks annually.

So my offer is to host the map files on suchbot.com so you don't have to stick to megaupload or something. I have no intention of any mischief, my server is just capable and I don't want all those bandwidth to be wasted. I don't ask for anything, just the honour of hosting the map

Another entirely off the subject issue I wonder is that since you're making your own host bots I think you are expanding w3mmd information that is passed from map. Will it be specific to your own bots or will it be available to everyone? If so, will you share detailed information about it?

Thank you.

First of all, I wan't to say that i agree with what Oberstain wrote

Then shortly about the points NoHeal4u mentioned:

You state some good points.. And you are completely right.. Farm issue has already been taken care of for b12.. Food cap will be taken care of for b12 or b13 (will take less than a second).. Death Dragon will also be looked at, as i think i mentioned in one of my earlier posts.. Split after 31 has always been an issue in x3 legion.. Lets take a look at it in later betas.. I know Saucer solved the exact same problem in 2.7c.. So should be possible to do again

@Vladimir, Textr and Noheal4U

I really appreciate the interest and support you guys show us.. It was never really the plan that things should take so long, but it did Can't change that now.. The future looks good though.. Holidays are comming and things are really moving behind the scenes.. And yea, btw. OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT NERV offered his help with a number of areas in terms of editing, and he has already done some work on b12. So in the future we have a few extra hands on the mega project, which we are very grateful for..

@Textr
I also consider the entire Suchbot project as a direct support to our legion mega project, and we are very thankful for that.. Even though b11 isn't exactly perfect, it is always good to have the newest version out there, so thanks.. (I will comment on the other tings in a Privat Message)

Sorry for the unstructured post, had to make it in a hurry

Best Regards
Kongk

will the new map and bot be uploaded and working 2014 or 2015 ? So will it be happening at the next week or 2 weeks?

Hi, just checking whats up. Particularly interested to know if its possible to give any kind of approximate percentage of "ready/done" parts of b12? :-)

Hi

Well, a percentage.. hmm.. I guess you could say that 90% is done (if not 95%).. The last 5% is VERY important though. Giving a release date, however, is quite impossible.. It will be released eventually though.

Best Regards
Kongk

Hey Kong

I want to ask if there will be any testing or similar before official release? You can test it yourself, of course, but more people that test it=more chance that someone will find important (or less important) bug. I imagine that here on forum you can find at least 10 people (including me) who would take a part in testing B12 and i think it would be wise thing to do before "official release" in order to avoid B11 scenario. Don't get me wrong here, I don't doubt your work and stuff, but as we all know map is big and relatively complicated, few persons just can't keep track of everything, which is totally normal. (Further, maps are there to be edited/upgraded and are never perfect.)

I hope we see B12 soon and i wish you good luck. Of course, if you need any help feel free to contact me here or on Skype.

Best Regards,

HI

Hi

Thank you for offering that, and i'm also confident that it would be possible to gather a testing crew in here, as you mention . We want to release B12 immediately after it is finished though. Any bugs that may occur will be dealt with in B13, which will be finished alot faster than B12, I can assure you that . Bugs are to be expected in beta versions, thats why they are called betas. Even though we try our hardest to avoid them, they will be there. Especially considering old wc3 mechanics, which sometimes are bugged themselves.. We will fix all bugs though, and final release should be without bugs at all.

Again, thank you for your interest

Best Regards
Kongk

Kongk wrote:Hi

Well, a percentage.. hmm.. I guess you could say that 90% is done (if not 95%).. The last 5% is VERY important though. Giving a release date, however, is quite impossible.. It will be released eventually though.

Best Regards
Kongk

90% done? Awesome! It means you're going to finish it in 1 month, considering B11 was released 10 monts ago!

vladimir3388 wrote: 90% done? Awesome! It means you're going to finish it in 1 month, considering B11 was released 10 monts ago!

Well, I certainly hope so. But as I mentioned, it is impossible to give a release date.

Best Regards
Kongk

Kongk wrote:Hi

Thank you for offering that, and i'm also confident that it would be possible to gather a testing crew in here, as you mention . We want to release B12 immediately after it is finished though. Any bugs that may occur will be dealt with in B13, which will be finished alot faster than B12, I can assure you that . Bugs are to be expected in beta versions, thats why they are called betas. Even though we try our hardest to avoid them, they will be there. Especially considering old wc3 mechanics, which sometimes are bugged themselves.. We will fix all bugs though, and final release should be without bugs at all.

Again, thank you for your interest

Best Regards
Kongk

Well i thought make it playable at first, medium and minor bugs will be easily fixed as people report them. By this i don't just mean "make towers move", i also mean that dealing with some super OP units and adding some necessary balance adjustments are key part in terms of how much map is enjoyable and playable. It is just beautiful when it requires skill for you to make income, and that is only possible when balance adjustments strike hard towers that made "incoming" look easy.

Best Regards,
HI

How about the heros, will they come back?

Sebbe wrote:How about the heros, will they come back?

Without spoiling too much, I can say that heroes aren't removed for good. They "might" return in some form

Best Regards
Kongk

Kongk wrote:

Sebbe wrote:How about the heros, will they come back?

Without spoiling too much, I can say that heroes aren't removed for good. They "might" return in some form

Best Regards
Kongk

Nice
I hope it comes soon

B12 released! Some nice balance changes and "new" t1 units. And so much more, better check it out! Nerding whole day TD Mega b12 -->

BossHK wrote:B12 released! Some nice balance changes and "new" t1 units. And so much more, better check it out! Nerding whole day TD Mega b12 -->

APRIL FOOLS!!!

Any info you can share with us guys?

Best regards,

Noheal4u

Hi

There are currently no news. I will make sure to inform you when there are some

Best Regards
Kongk

-Can you guys add hotkeys to the barrack creeps? (ex. v for demon)

-For prophet, can you have first rr free? not 50 lumber?

-a mode where you get mid bounties, but no king kills bounty.

-Can you make demon cd longer (same as 3.41)? Being able to send 3 demon in one lvl is imba.

-Can you guys also increase holy light? Either king should be strong enough with holylights to be able to handle many demons or demon send limit should be limited.

-I see you guys increased king's hp (great), but can you make it less to something like 20k? 28k seems too much thinking about lvls 1-10. Or have a king hp cap between lvls 1-10?

-Can you add phase boots on all send creeps? This will help you with clustering units. (phase: can go through any unit)

Please please consider my suggestions. Release a version soon!!!

Thank you for your work.

Hi

Thank you very much for your suggestions

-Hotkeys not working is a bug, so that will be fixed

-Prophet re-rolls were changed, and I don't see a reason to change back again. There will always be advantages AND disadvantages no matter what you do on this matter. It is merely a matter of opinion.

-gg mode will not be changed in Mega. I won't really spend much time elaborating on that.

-Demon cooldown was reduced since it (when NOT playing -os) sometimes took more than 1 round to refresh. So you weren't able to send one each level. The game is balanced according to default mode (Not -os), which is why the change were made

-Holy light, same reason as above. Holy lights are a part of -os and not a part of default mode. We really don't fancy holy lights ourselves, but we understand that a lot of people consider them a part of the game, which is why we preserved them in -os mode. We won't spend time on adjusting them though.

-Ahh, well. I don't think you understand the new king hp system (which I understand why, is ins't really explained anywhere). Kings are automatically given extra hp at certain levels according to the number of players left in your team. So to reach 28000 hp you will have to; be 4 in the team, buy all "King hp upgrades" and it can only be reached after level 15.

-Creeps clogging is a bug too. Increasing speed isn't gonna fix it, but we will fix it.

Again thank you for your interest

Best Regards
Kongk

Fair responses.

Honestly, since I play 3.41, I do not really understand the new modes =x . I will take my time to try and learn them though.

Lastly, would it be possible to adjust demon cooldown just for -os mode?

Will be looking forward to your project,

nabo

Hi

I totally understand the modes can seem a bit confusing, it is an entirely new modes system afterall. It is quite simple when you get to know them though

In terms of changing demon cooldown just for -os, yes it is possible. And I will think about it. But as i said, we don't want to spend much time on "fixing" -os, since game will be balaced according to default mode. I know changing cooldown is a relatively small thing, but then there is that other thing, and that other thing, and suddenly it isn't that small anymore

Best Regards
Kongk

Are there any news? An update would be nice

Really looking forward to b12 : )