Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback.

HighestIncome Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:21 pm

Downloading :hype:

Regards,

HI

NoHeal4u Sat Nov 21, 2015 1:43 pm

I see what you've done there. We can basically host 3 modes, SDHR, PH or PHOS.

Didn't check the King HP scaling in PH mode yet nor the late game (21-30). There are no words about late game in the change log since I am pretty sure it could be easy and end up boring in case sends or levels aren't a bit stronger compared to versions from B8-B11. IF that is the case id propose an option to "juice up" send unit's in late game with lumber, like we can do it with Mutant. Juice up demon from 1-10 times and depending on how much lumber you've invested game would send different version of Demon to the other side(level 1-10).

I salute the nerf DD and Thunderbirds received(we have made some crazy value records with them 36-38K) although I'm extremely worried about the fact that nothing was said about the meat wagons - they were also extremely strong in the earlier version.

About the various changes, im pretty excited with them and I cant wait to try them all out and "break" the game again with some OP builds. Smile

Game is probably heading into the right direction, and im sincerely hoping that there is more enthusiasm and time left in your lives for maybe one or two more iterations which could bring this game into a perfect state(balance tuning) for the current players and for the history when WC3 eventually dies(in 20-30 years i hope hah).

Thank you for the map. We waited for this with relentless persistence.

HighestIncome Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:05 am

I will try to find some time in next few days to give detailed feedback/critics about B12.

Also if someone is hosting this or know who hosts this, feel free to share info.

@Saucer

Are you still planning to run some hostbots and what's going on there? Smile

BR,

HI

NoHeal4u Sun Nov 22, 2015 8:43 am

Hey, there is a game breaking bug. All buildings burned and builders died before arena.

http://www.megafileupload.com/5wr6/game_break.w3g

It happens every time in PHOS.

DOnt know about PH, HR or SD.
We will test it.

EDIT2:

PH and SDHR seems to be working normally.

vladimir3388 Sun Nov 22, 2015 9:19 am

Congratulations guys, this time you definitely surpassed yourself! Officially the worst and most bugged legion ever! Very Happy

B8 was just filled with new overpowered units, B11 had terrible buggs which made game almost unplayable, but this time it literally is unplayable because everything vanishes in the flames! Very Happy

**Saucer** Sun Nov 22, 2015 10:29 am

There's a reason we call it beta Wink

Thanks for the bug report (and the other feedback from NoHeal4u, but I'll let Kongk comment on that).

I'll look into it.

If you have any more information to add regarding this bug, or have other bugs to report, please let me know as soon as possible, so that I can get it included in the next update.

HighestIncome wrote:
@Saucer

Are you still planning to run some hostbots and what's going on there?

I havn't had the time lately, but if that changes, then yeah probably.

NoHeal4u Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:56 pm

@HI You can play it on suchbot.com. We will host this map and any future iterations.

About more reports. Purple player reported that he doesn't have healing in phos mode, i didn't see it with my own eyes, but i will stay on guard and take a closer look myself.

**Saucer** Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:01 pm

Thank you, NoHeal4u.

I located the game breaking bug in -os mode, so I'll probably release a fixed beta 13 later today.

Couldn't spot any problems regarding the purple missing heal thing, but found another bug while looking, so that's good Wink

If that missing heal thing happen again, it would be useful for me to know about these circumstances:

- prophet or hybrid? (or other builder?)
- does it only happen with that type of builder?
- did the heal disappear after using a re-roll?
- if missing, does it get fixed (heal reappear) by using re-roll?
- only a problem with purple slot?
- what mode did you play?
- does it only happen with that mode?

**Saucer** Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:23 am

All right, this should do it...

Please test and confirm that the issues have been fixed.

Download Beta 13:

(link)
mediafire.com/download/26crjacc8jjnqxw/Legion_TD_Mega_3.5_(B13).w3x

NoHeal4u Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:55 am

Great! We are already hosting it!

Apparently there is a problem with SDHR mode, when sometimes people arent able to to pick race. Ive seen it myself( i had only one pick available), but some people said that they had no pick option at all. Ill try to provide replay or SS in case I hear about the same bug again,

**Kongk** Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:55 am

Allright, I haven't really had the time to post this till now, so here it is Wink

I simply want to add a comment to the changes that have been made in the hope of fixing the "silly movement" bug. As I may have mentioned before, it really isn't a bug from a technical point of view. The real problem is the outdated wc3 engine that can't handle the high number of units on the screen. The problem occurs when data that is sent from player to player throughout a multiplayer game. So what you really see when melee towers repeatedly stuck on their way to the ranged creebs is something that in a simplified appellation could be called delay. This is why the bug doesn't appear in single player games.

Anyhow, we have tried to make some workarounds to fix this problem. We have tested them in single player and in private multiplayer games. The result was a drastic improvement from B11 to B12, with B12 being almost perfect! Applying to both B11 and B12, the bug didn't appear in single player. In the private multiplayer games, however, the bug appeared in B11 and not in B12.

I cannot guarantee that the problem is totally fixed now though, since maps have a tendency to behave differently when being bothosted. So we will have to see how it works Smile

Best Regards
Kongk

**Kongk** Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:57 am

Thank you for reporting the problem with -sd, NoHeal Smile

It probably is a glitch in the -sd code that has nothing to do with -hr.

If you manage to collect further data such as for instance replays, you are most welcome to send them to us Smile

Best Regards
Kongk

NoHeal4u Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:33 am

Hey apparently this bug is real, Ive seen it now with my own eyes. So the mode is SDHR players either get 1 or non options sometimes. I think it is happening when someone gets prophet or hybrid as option, since ive played around 10 games in this mode and ive never seen anyone playing hyb or proph which is impossible except hyb or proph are going under "no option" category.

Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback. - Page 11 12281950_1066856956671544_887887856_o

Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback. - Page 11 12281950_1066856956671544_887887856_o

Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 13), General Discussion and Feedback. - Page 11 12299885_1066349063389000_1953870594_o

**Saucer** Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:38 pm

Great, thank you for the screenshots. You might be right about Hybrid / Prophet builder being the reason for the bug.

I'll look into it.

vladimir3388 Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:39 pm

Kongk wrote:Allright, I haven't really had the time to post this till now, so here it is

I simply want to add a comment to the changes that have been made in the hope of fixing the "silly movement" bug. As I may have mentioned before, it really isn't a bug from a technical point of view. The real problem is the outdated wc3 engine that can't handle the high number of units on the screen. The problem occurs when data that is sent from player to player throughout a multiplayer game. So what you really see when melee towers repeatedly stuck on their way to the ranged creebs is something that in a simplified appellation could be called delay. This is why the bug doesn't appear in single player games.

Anyhow, we have tried to make some workarounds to fix this problem. We have tested them in single player and in private multiplayer games. The result was a drastic improvement from B11 to B12, with B12 being almost perfect! Applying to both B11 and B12, the bug didn't appear in single player. In the private multiplayer games, however, the bug appeared in B11 and not in B12.

I cannot guarantee that the problem is totally fixed now though, since maps have a tendency to behave differently when being bothosted. So we will have to see how it works

Best Regards
Kongk

If "silly movement" really is caused by outdated WC3 engine, how come it never happens in 3.41? As far as i know, 3.41 uses exactly the same engine... Those buggs appeared in B11 after you guys changed root code of legion while you were trying to reduce game delays, which you actually managed to fix. To be honest, that delay was affecting gameplay way less than "silly movement" which makes map dumb and almost unplayable. You can visit suchbot and you'll see ultimate tactic is saving for level 12, which is still impossible to defend with melee builds and short ranged units like alpha males.

I really like how you fixed minotaur and I'm glad to see you made knight cheaper and added some extra HP to sword mage, but most other balance changes were really bad or done the the wrong way. For example, Adept became OP like hell and I allready noticed few players (including myself) spamming them. Few days ago I owned level 17 with demon, kraken and some other sends with only few units lost, just because I had 6 Adepts. Guardians, Militia and Pandarens were totally cool for their price and they were some of my favorite early game units, and now they would be really OP if there wasn't for "silly movement". Same goes for many more units like Krogoth which would be OP with their changed prices, but there's no use talking about that while "silly movement" exists. Krogoths are just one example where unit with heavy armor and normal damage beaomes more effective for level 13 than 12. Veteran was lame and I agree he needed some buff, but he recieved the wrong one. I doubt this new ability will help him become useful unit for any part of game. With his huge and slow attack it will remain usless for early game because his new ability is made for mid/late game, but with his hitpoint capacity he's useless after early game. Rider's increased attack range is something I would change myself, but its ability is not necessary, and same goes for revenant, which was fine unit even without giving it anti boss ability. Goblin's T1 was way too expensive for what it provides, which made it the worst unit in the game and yet it's one of few T1 which wasn't buffed in this version. Gnolls used to be good for levels 2 and 3 at least and now they're completely useless after they bacame unarmored. Told you long ago that they need to become ranged. There is a beautiful gnol model available with a crossbow which wasn't used for any other unit or creep... Necrolyte was really messed up after you made it more expensive by 50 gold and it's probably not fixed properly with this change where you merged his spawns into 1 big skeleton, because it will remain useless for early game. Skydragon won't become much better anti air unit by just giving it 50 extra HP. Soul oh hero and Slavemaster still need faster attack with smaller damage per hit, because they still make too big overkill in early game like Veteran does. Soul of hero's defensive mode should be more tanky and his dps mode should attack way faster. Harpy still needs bigger attack range like Rider recieved. Nightcrawler and Meat wagons are still OP as hell and not fixed after entire year of abusing their spam on suchbot.

Best regards, Vlad's reincarnation

NoHeal4u Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:52 pm

One more thing we noticed, bosses at level 10 get stuck, at least 1 of them on the left side from time to time. It might be related with building in mid, im not sure, ill post replay link when i get a hold on it.

BTW, there is absolutely no stuttering or delay in any phase of early or late game, you've fixed it completely Cool

Melee units aren't moving 100% perfectly on ranged levels, but i have a feeling its at least 90% on the scale, which is amazing compared to B11.

Meat wagons still feel a little bit too strong, maybe slight HP reduction would do the trick.

Pepes Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:26 am

NoHeal4u wrote:One more thing we noticed, bosses at level 10 get stuck, at least 1 of them on the left side from time to time. It might be related with building in mid, im not sure, ill post replay link when i get a hold on it.

It happens for us, too. There is automatic unstuck, so it's really usefull. But still I will appreciate if Antistuck will work everywhere not only in Arena.
https://ctrlv.cz/4svj
https://ctrlv.cz/WyAu

What I noticed is on boss levels, when we're building on mid the sent units are going faster than bosses. So we can kill them first so bosses don't get boost from them.

**Kongk** Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:51 pm

Thanks for the feedback, screenshots and everything guys. It is really helpful and really appreciated! Smile

(Although we really appreciate your feedback "@Vladimir's reincarnation", we liked the old "Vladimir" better. Please mind your attitude. I really don't cherish your tone lately!)

That being said, you state some interesting points. Adept being too powerful is something I agree with you upon. Also, I like the idea you state with Soul of Hero, making the "Change Stand" ability more "clear", so you distinguish between an attacking (damage dealing) role and a tanking role. Ghost do need some more effective tanking units. Buffing Slavemaster a little is also something, I believe could be a good initiative.

In terms of the reduction in the number of summons from Hades and Necrolytes, I can only confirm that it was done for performance reasons. Lategames often got very laggy and we really want to reduce that. I know that the effect of the summons aren't completely the same now, but we will have to keep it this way. I am very open to balance suggestions to the summons as long as the number of summons remains the same. We will probably need some further testing to point out what needs to be changed in that connection.

I disagree on some other points though. I believe harpies (as an example) are quite fine as they are considering they are part of Beast race, which has some other strong towers.

It's a little unclear what the current state of the silly movement issue is. Some say it is completely the same as before and others say it is much better. I guess we will need some further testing to actually determine the exact state of this problem. Saucer will, as the expert on this area, make a few further comments on this topic.

Thank you for the report on the lvl 10 bosses @Noheal and thank you for the screenshots of the issue @pepes. It is something we will take a look at and hopefully fix. Smile

(It is also good to hear that the automatic antistuck refrains the problem from becoming really serious. Good to know it works Smile

)

Also on Meat Wagons. Noted.

I'll have to wrap things up now. Ehhhm. We won't reintroduce the old antistucks. People will abuse them as it was a problem in earlier Mega versions and the automatic antistuck system seems to works perfectly!

(Also glad to hear that about the delay.) Smile

Best Regards
Kongk

XanyuS Fri Nov 27, 2015 7:37 pm

Kongk wrote:Thanks for the feedback, screenshots and everything guys. It is really helpful and really appreciated!

(Although we really appreciate your feedback "@Vladimir's reincarnation", we liked the old "Vladimir" better. Please mind your attitude. I really don't cherish your tone lately!)

That being said, you state some interesting points. Adept being too powerful is something I agree with you upon. Also, I like the idea you state with Soul of Hero, making the "Change Stand" ability more "clear", so you distinguish between an attacking (damage dealing) role and a tanking role. Ghost do need some more effective tanking units. Buffing Slavemaster a little is also something, I believe could be a good initiative.

In terms of the reduction in the number of summons from Hades and Necrolytes, I can only confirm that it was done for performance reasons. Lategames often got very laggy and we really want to reduce that. I know that the effect of the summons aren't completely the same now, but we will have to keep it this way. I am very open to balance suggestions to the summons as long as the number of summons remains the same. We will probably need some further testing to point out what needs to be changed in that connection.

I disagree on some other points though. I believe harpies (as an example) are quite fine as they are considering they are part of Beast race, which has some other strong towers.

It's a little unclear what the current state of the silly movement issue is. Some say it is completely the same as before and others say it is much better. I guess we will need some further testing to actually determine the exact state of this problem. Saucer will, as the expert on this area, make a few further comments on this topic.

Thank you for the report on the lvl 10 bosses @Noheal and thank you for the screenshots of the issue @pepes. It is something we will take a look at and hopefully fix.

(It is also good to hear that the automatic antistuck refrains the problem from becoming really serious. Good to know it works )

Also on Meat Wagons. Noted.

I'll have to wrap things up now. Ehhhm. We won't reintroduce the old antistucks. People will abuse them as it was a problem in earlier Mega versions and the automatic antistuck system seems to works perfectly!

(Also glad to hear that about the delay.)

Best Regards
Kongk

Hi, Im also workin on suchbot as a admin. And i need to share some serious bugs in b13.
I built young doctor for the cost of 80 gold and sold it for the cost of 100 gold so i got 20 gold for free. [Players can abuse this if they know Sad

]
We played till final bosses after lvl35 and this bosses has less damage on king and meridians its says (1000-1001 chaos attack) but doing like 200 dps on king. We won 1 game by accidently because of this:)
As vladimir says Adept's are so op mid and late game. if one pro player use this in early game they are also op in first 10 lvl.

**Kongk** Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:57 pm

Welcome to you xanyuS! Wink

Thank you for your feedback. Smile

You are totally right about Young Docters, fixed it right away. Will be fixed in B14 Wink

About that incident with the king. Kings have much higher damage reduction than normal towers, thats the reason why. I agree that final bosses should hurt king more though, and I will try to make some kind of workaround to make that happen Wink

Adept, ty. Is on my to-do list Smile

Best Regards
Kongk

Pepes Sat Nov 28, 2015 6:27 am

XanyuS wrote:I built young doctor for the cost of 80 gold and sold it for the cost of 100 gold so i got 20 gold for free. [Players can abuse this if they know ]

We tried to abuse it, but hacked golds disappears. I heard from someone that this bugs can be abused in singleplayer not in multiplayer in GameRanger.. but I havent tested it

// EDIT: The gold disappears only in multiplayer (tested with GameRanger) after a while. You must be really FAST to catch it, otherwise it can't be abused (only in SP)

// EDIT2: We played 3v3, after 1st arena all guys from enemy teams leaves and boss had until 17round 7800hp and +damage around 30hp. So it automatically sent infernal so we had gg Sad

**Kongk** Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:41 am

ahh, good to hear, thanks Smile

In any case, it is taken care of in B14 Wink

Best Regards
Kongk

NoHeal4u Sun Dec 06, 2015 3:12 am

Well, no builder option is happening even after the re roll. Just had a situation where i had no option to pick on level 25 and had to leave the game :/ Mode was SDHR

Morfi Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:34 pm

nothing has changed.

op units remained op and still you can just mass them for autowin.

rip LTD

vladimir3388 Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:00 am

Morfi wrote:nothing has changed.

op units remained op and still you can just mass them for autowin.

rip LTD

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