Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 4 is out)

**HuanAk** Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:12 am

Diablo 3 will released 15th May

I will try finish this version before Diablo 3

**HuanAk** Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:22 am

Dazzlee wrote:Right now there are bugfixes and major adjustments, do you really want to know every change?

If there are any big or interesting updates/news what is done (like the new levels), huan edits the first post!

yes, any balance/bug fix will put on first post so people don't need to report them.

anything new don't have to put there, because ideas can be cancel & retry many time untill I am happy.

**von_Oberstain** Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:13 am

HuanAk wrote:Diablo 3 will released 15th May

I will try finish this version before Diablo 3

this is an universal deadline! Smile

i'm going to synchronize my work/sleep pattern with release hour, and you can expect to see me as at least lvl15 tomorrow morning, after which i'll have to go to work and (maybe) sleep, but all remaining time...

just haven't decided definitely which character i'll use - wizard and monk are prime choices for my (different) playstyles, but i'm only positive that i WON'T play witch-doctor (a sorry replacement for necromancer, hope blizzard will return it in expansion, under great pressure fans will have Smile

)

DIABLO3!!!!!!!!

JaffaKREE Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:48 am

HuanAk,

First off, thanks for all the work you have put into Legion Mega. It's vastly superior to all the previous versions. I don't even know why I still see 1.6, 2.7, etc. hosted.

I have a couple of high-level suggestions I think would really improve the current state of the map. Feel free to take them with a grain of salt, but I think they would help increase the replay factor.

1 - Get rid of merc. It was a great idea, but unfortunately it gets abused to no end. -AP is broken because of it; there's no way to compete with a merc who's at 7/10 after 10. The deluge is unstoppable, and it makes -AP unplayable.

2 - Change the Prophet re-roll costs so it's free, free, 25/25, 50/50, 75/75, 100/100. The biggest frustration in playing -HP prophet is that luck is a huge factor. While this will always be the case to some degree, this mitigates the sunken feeling of seeing an army of priests/novices, etc staring back at you.

3 - For Hybrid to be playable, the towers need to be cheaper. Since it's luck of the draw, you need something to help out. For example, 305 for top tier could get you something that only costs 280 or 300. Not only is your placement a complete gamble, you're losing money on top of it. I'd actually love to see them randomize after every round, but that's be a lot of coding for something that doesn't see much use anyway.

4 - I would love to see a co-op mode added, a non-default mode that allows you to build towers in your allies' zone. Mixing auras, working out the best combinations seems like it'd be tons of fun. There's obvious abuse potential, but it'd be great for high-level games.

Tower balancing will always be something everyone's got a comment on, so I'll keep it to a minimum.

- Catapults are basically worthless due to their absurd DPS. Whenever someone leaks MASSIVELY early on, I expect to see a cata or two in there. It's noob bait. Priests are the same way - in theory, they seem good but they're essentially a waste of gold. Active spells with a long casting time are the worst case scenario - the tower is spending time healing instead of attacking, often healing another tower that dies before it gets another attack in anyway.

- Dragons are way overpriced. It's DPS again; A big number in the attack column seems nice, but it's often going to get wasted on a spawn that's got 20 hp left. Since they're not tanks, either, I'm not sure where they fit it. You can get 1 1/2 to 2 Dopples for the price of the average dragon, and there's no situation you'd rather have the dragon over the two of them.

I've done custom maps before (incl. Creep Wars TFT), so let me know if you have interest in assistance.

Thanks again,
JK

**NERV** Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:21 am

JaffaKREE wrote:
1 - Get rid of merc. It was a great idea, but unfortunately it gets abused to no end. -AP is broken because of it; there's no way to compete with a merc who's at 7/10 after 10. The deluge is unstoppable, and it makes -AP unplayable.

If you would like to play -ap mode, and don't feel like playing against merc, just play -apli.

JaffaKREE wrote:
2 - Change the Prophet re-roll costs so it's free, free, 25/25, 50/50, 75/75, 100/100. The biggest frustration in playing -HP prophet is that luck is a huge factor. While this will always be the case to some degree, this mitigates the sunken feeling of seeing an army of priests/novices, etc staring back at you.

I couldn't disagree more, Prophet is one of the strongest race in game and it does not need 2 free rolls. I think you may need more practice with prophet.

JaffaKREE wrote:
3 - For Hybrid to be playable, the towers need to be cheaper. Since it's luck of the draw, you need something to help out. For example, 305 for top tier could get you something that only costs 280 or 300. Not only is your placement a complete gamble, you're losing money on top of it. I'd actually love to see them randomize after every round, but that's be a lot of coding for something that doesn't see much use anyway.

Hybrid is already playable, you should check Bombastick Guide, there's a section which talks about hybrid. The point of tier 6 costing more than you can afford at lv1 is to avoid people rolling units too overpower for beginning (like neotank and seer). Also, reducing the cost to 280 would make the tier6 99% profitable. Not going to happen I guess.

JaffaKREE wrote:
4 - I would love to see a co-op mode added, a non-default mode that allows you to build towers in your allies' zone. Mixing auras, working out the best combinations seems like it'd be tons of fun. There's obvious abuse potential, but it'd be great for high-level games.

You can build in mid (darkgreen area) with the bottom player if you like. Thou, in late game you'll probably ran out of space to build units.

JaffaKREE wrote:
- Catapults are basically worthless due to their absurd DPS. Whenever someone leaks MASSIVELY early on, I expect to see a cata or two in there. It's noob bait. Priests are the same way - in theory, they seem good but they're essentially a waste of gold. Active spells with a long casting time are the worst case scenario - the tower is spending time healing instead of attacking, often healing another tower that dies before it gets another attack in anyway.

Yeah, catapults are one of the strongest income you can send before lv10. But I don't understand if you're complaining about them, or just saying how strong they are. Not sure. The fact is: they have siege dmg and they are ranged, meaning: they'll kill anything with fortified armor (which I consider one of the strongest armor types, since they'll get a lot of dmg reduction for most rounds) and they will die last of all.
In last version of MEGA, lots of nerfs/buffs/balancing happened to priest. But I don't think they are a absolute waste of gold, Thanks to them, paladin can achieve the highest income of all races after lv10(100+ income). And once you got enough of them, they are stronger than the Witch Doctor of Orc.

JaffaKREE wrote:
- Dragons are way overpriced. It's DPS again; A big number in the attack column seems nice, but it's often going to get wasted on a spawn that's got 20 hp left. Since they're not tanks, either, I'm not sure where they fit it. You can get 1 1/2 to 2 Dopples for the price of the average dragon, and there's no situation you'd rather have the dragon over the two of them.

Except for the red dragon, I think the blue and purple dragons are ok. They deal massive dmg and the one of them has a neat skill with slow/+3armor (good for protecting your flank).

IMO those high-level suggestion would not really improve the current state of game, but would only make it easier. But fear not! Rumors said that the next version of MEGA will be a little more ease. We shall wait and see.

Dazzlee Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:36 pm

I totally agree NERV. MEGA 3.41 is a big challenge in compare to 3.3 or 3.4. Those Versions were way too easy and after like 20-30 games it got very boring to me.

But there is 1 point i cant agree. The Dragons are really complicated because of their splash, i think they should get an attack speed buff and an attack damage nerf, it happens often that the dragon want to attack, but the creep dies in that moment and it takes again the 1.5 sec to try next attack. With lower AD and higher AS but same DPS this problem COULD be solved.

pravesh Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:11 pm

Yeah increase the splash, reduce dps, increase attack speed for dragons. Its been like half a year since a new legion td mega map released. I thought you were going to make some duels for strongest vs strongest, weakest vs weakest etc. are the duels there ?

**NERV** Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:28 am

Dazzlee wrote:it happens often that the dragon want to attack, but the creep dies in that moment and it takes again the 1.5 sec to try next attack.

This doesn't happen that often after lv21, and I believe it is because creeps have a large pool of hp; yet still happens sometimes, but not as much as before lv 20. So my advice for dragons is: don't get 'em upgraded before lv 20, I guess this can be applied to any slow attacking unit.(Except maybe for blue dragon, since his skill is really neat and cool, and he does have a nice slow).

Dazzlee Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:35 pm

Your right, that happens because lower waves dies to fast. I prefer not to build T6 before 20 except you have no good Tank (T4/5) that clears Level 14/17

btw. NERV get Battle.net and join Clan UC Channel to play some games Wink

hhhiii Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:38 am

make beast's dragon back to legion 1.60 again ba, the strongest land unit in fighting although useless in air, somehow it make the beast so charming to me.

Bombastik Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:19 pm

hhhiii wrote:make beast's dragon back to legion 1.60 again ba, the strongest land unit in fighting although useless in air, somehow it make the beast so charming to me.

Every air units is usefull level 31 :-)

twisteD Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:25 am

;o *soz* eh is Legion TD 3.5 still in progress or is the project on Ice?

pravesh Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:00 am

yup i visit this page everyday but still the map isn't done yet

twisteD Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:33 am

thats why i asked, and i just wonder haven't heared anything about the progress last 1-2 month?!
if the project "3.5" is on ice, so i don't need to watch this side everyday anymore ^^

**NERV** Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:43 am

twisteD wrote:if the project "3.5" is on ice, so i don't need to watch this side everyday anymore ^^

I don't think it's on ice, but I don't have any info on how the new map is going.

I read somewhere (I think in the hive forums) that HuanAk is just spending a few hours per day on the map and the progress is slow.

**HuanAk** Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:35 pm

It still working on.

Wave 31-35 creep finish, but still testing ability/difficult. ( wave 32-35 will spawn 1 boss for each lane)

eg,
Pit Lord still same.
Crypt lord will spawn lots of pet with low cool down(high damage, low hp), so you need AE or small but fast damage to kill those pet fast.
War Lord will use illusion and lifesteal (or high health regen), so you will need high damage to kill it faster than it can regen.
Fire Lord will split into smaller fire element
Doom is design for unkillable, it have massive HP, death touch... and it will deal massive explosive damage if die.

It take a while to adjust & test those new wave to make it work.

and player can control their own fighter ? it is easy to turn this on if need.

Dazzlee Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:45 pm

HuanAk wrote:
and player can control their own fighter ? it is easy to turn this on if need.

I hope you enable it on later rounds in the game, if really necessary. Because if you can control your units the whole game, its no longer a tower defense.

pravesh Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:09 am

i play with 200 ping + people if you put control then delay might affect game.

**HuanAk** Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:47 am

Dazzlee wrote:
HuanAk wrote:
and player can control their own fighter ? it is easy to turn this on if need.

I hope you enable it on later rounds in the game, if really necessary. Because if you can control your units the whole game, its no longer a tower defense.

I found one problem about player control.

many ability that trigger by code won't work if it is player unit.

so have to redo lots of abilities.

**NERV** Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:07 am

HuanAk wrote:

and player can control their own fighter ? it is easy to turn this on if need.

Then lag/delay during game may become a real issue. maybe if we could fight with our builder in some sort of arena after lv 30;lv 30 hero with hp based on our value/different hero for every race; prophet, hybrid and merc gets something else; like a 30 seconds fight....and then the side with more alive players win. would be cool. Gotta be in a specific time so lag/delay won't be a problem.

HuanAk wrote:
Dazzlee wrote:
I hope you enable it on later rounds in the game, if really necessary. Because if you can control your units the whole game, its no longer a tower defense.

I found one problem about player control.

many ability that trigger by code won't work if it is player unit.

so have to redo lots of abilities.

I don't think being able to control your own units during any wave would be nice at all, besides having a large amount of units to control , the lag would destroy the playability and also, Huanak would have to spend a lot of time coding again.

Dazzlee Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:15 pm

Yea i agree with you. The playability and the game itself would change way too much and too many problems will accure.

Players are waiting for long time to see 3.5, number one priority should be a first beta with code system, bug fixes and stuff like that to see if it work.

But Huan you are the creator and you have to decide how your legion td is. So im looking forward to the next versions and open for new surprises lol!

surmelk Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:57 am

Some games the sending of creeps lag, any way to improve this in the coding?

Dazzlee Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:00 am

Its a huge problem of WC3 Engine and Coding of the Map. Huan constantly works on improving to reduce the lags for every Version.

pravesh Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:08 pm

one more bug i found when our unit dies after doing a spell ( young frost dragon, dark priest etc) and we kill the creep (s) .... we don't get the gold. hope you get what am saying. peace out.

Dazzlee Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:13 am

Please post this into the bug section of the forum.

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