Re: Legion TD Mega 3.5 (Beta 4 is out)

Dazzlee Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:52 pm

Golem Problem:

Like NERV already said you have to pay attention on your value, BUT if you have a few Goliath or Greymane this level is easy peasy. Just get some units with siege attack and any other armor than fortified!

Arena:

Even if the Turtle levels up i never recognized that the stats raise after level up. Just watch it once Wink

First Arena is highly depended on your value again. I often see the first team with four players they have 6/0 up tp 7/1 and value like 1800. The other three ppl have 5/0 or less and over 2000 value. THATS WHY THEY WIN!

Second Arena i have to admit that 2 Turtles are way too weak, but hey its 200 gold. You shouldnt care for that. Btw your income should be equal to 200.

Guide:

Why dont you write it?

Prophet/Hybrid:

I think Prophet is the strongest race in this game. You just need some experience to handle the pools you get. Ofc you cant have always a good pool but honestly if you have to re-roll more than 2 times in the beginning you should practise prophet. Its a fun race with great potential to get the best towers/units.

Hybrid, i personally dont like it because you cant really build straight. Your ranged can be in front and your tanks behind them. This race is just not my favor, but still (f**king) strong!

**HuanAk** Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:05 pm

Just back from holiday, will post more update from now on.

ZeketA Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:00 am

How's progress goin'? When we can expect new version!? Surprised

tlola Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:24 am

这节奏，要等到过完年了么

mrshout Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:14 am

I completely agree with Dazzlee on the Turtle "level up" stats don't change, unless there are some hidden bonuses which i doubt. There whole new HUGE beta thing sounds exciting but at the same time i think it might be just a little too much scratch

I also agree about the Mech auras (it is possible to build it further away behind the ranged units so it does not move and provide the bonus for the whole round, but what about the non-ranged ones Sad

). If it's upgraded, it's not such a big deal until harder levels, but we all love stacking auras and the small guy with about 500hp charges right into the creeps and dies almost instantly Rolling Eyes

I agree that level 17 should stay as it is, it just makes the game more interesting, and if you are really going heavy on income or just don't play well, just try matching the armor/attack types as best as you can and watch your value

I have a few things thoughts of my own:

Really annoyed with Infantry upgraded to Zeus. With such a massive range they can stand behind everyone and do their thing, but i some creeps happen to sneak past your "tanks", and they start killing them, Zeus just ignores those units and dies (Really rare for them to turn and start attacking the "backstabber" when there are still creeps attacking the tanks)

Another thing i noticed is the binding. I bind my houses and the last house that contains all the best units, refreshes sometimes, noticed it does that on level 10 (or maybe before) and I have to target it and re-bind it again. scratch

Was also wondering if there is any better way for melee units to pick their targets, instead of running from one end to the other when there are targets right by them. What also relates to this is some units changing targets easily on bosses, whey they happen to have really low HP and all of a sudden start attacking the full HP one Shocked

Sorry for the long list study

Just some things I wanted to talk about Cool

Dazzlee Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:45 pm

I also agree about the Mech auras (it is possible to build it further away behind the ranged units so it does not move and provide the bonus for the whole round, but what about the non-ranged ones Sad ). If it's upgraded, it's not such a big deal until harder levels, but we all love stacking auras and the small guy with about 500hp charges right into the creeps and dies almost instantly Rolling Eyes

In almost every game i use 5 lines/rows for my towers from the very beginning! try it, it works well if you build smart. thats what i actually tried to explain a few posts ago.

Really annoyed with Infantry upgraded to Zeus. With such a massive range they can stand behind everyone and do their thing, but i some creeps happen to sneak past your "tanks", and they start killing them, Zeus just ignores those units and dies (Really rare for them to turn and start attacking the "backstabber" when there are still creeps attacking the tanks)

Thats really difficult and i noticed it too, especially level 14, 15 + 17. it should be the wc3 engine that units mostly attack others with lowest hp.

Another thing i noticed is the binding. I bind my houses and the last house that contains all the best units, refreshes sometimes, noticed it does that on level 10 (or maybe before) and I have to target it and re-bind it again. scratch

happens to me often too

Was also wondering if there is any better way for melee units to pick their targets, instead of running from one end to the other when there are targets right by them. What also relates to this is some units changing targets easily on bosses, whey they happen to have really low HP and all of a sudden start attacking the full HP one Shocked

thats wierd, cause like i wrote before mostly units will attack the lowest. i know double or even tripple focus on boss rounds (annoying as hell) but that is really crap. only thing i can think of if you use net or (ehm i dont really know those thingys the upgraded trees of nature cast) roots (???) then they change target!

i hope i could help you bro.

Gin.A Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:13 am

Hi, HuanAK, this is Gin.A.
I'd like to suggest a switch system, similar to that of dota.
Bugs may occur at the start, but it will be a good implement to do some game balancing in the event of leavers.
I have noticed a trend of chain-leaving (when one teammate leaves, another follows). With Switch, it will be much better. It is a long-lasting solution.
Consider my suggestion, thanks.

mrshout Mon Jan 16, 2012 3:21 am

Thanks for the support Dazzlee Smile

I do try to put the captain as far as possible but i always build in an "Oracle" formation so if i get a Witch Doctor when i repick (if its with change builder), I can build it inbetween 6 units (I sometimes use one of the slots for the upgraded Captain so he can survive longer but never for the non-upgraded one, I better leave that slot for something like a neotank Very Happy

)

. = 1 space (not enough for a unit)
- = unit
_ = free spaces left
o = oracle

.--_--_--.
-o--o--o-
.--_--_--.

i usually put the auras in the free spaces left, except the 2 in the first row, those i leave for emergency if i run out of space for tanks Very Happy

Yeah, Zeus problem is, like you said, especially annoying on 14,15 and 17 they die way too fast.

I forgot to say that the problem of units running from one end to another usually happens on ranged waves, like 16 for example. I noticed that dopplegangers do it a lot, but that was a long time ago not sure if it's the same in 3.41. In 3.41 i saw Wardens and Trees of Knowledge (non-upgraded too) doing that Sad

When i get the trees I will definetely try the roots now Very Happy

Thanks

Oh, almost forgot:

I was thinking about the switch thingie that Gin.A said too but seemed like an impossible task ( but really cool tho, would be incredible to have). But moving all the units and lumber collectors seems hard to do Shocked

Dazzlee Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:07 am

The change target is mostly on ranged, ya. i expectet that kinda Cool

i think switch is impossible cause of workers and lumbers. its not just a hero with items who will be swapped. but though i nearly have no knowledge about creating a wc3 map.

i'll look up for a good replay with many auras from the beginning and i upload it so you can see how i build.

mrshout Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:43 am

ok

**von_Oberstain** Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:09 pm

Gin.A wrote:Hi, HuanAK, this is Gin.A.
I'd like to suggest a switch system, similar to that of dota.
Bugs may occur at the start, but it will be a good implement to do some game balancing in the event of leavers.
I have noticed a trend of chain-leaving (when one teammate leaves, another follows). With Switch, it will be much better. It is a long-lasting solution.
Consider my suggestion, thanks.

i thought a lot about this too. major (logical) problems i found were:
a) switched player knows all about former team in mm mode
b) more importantly, leaver (other than rage-quitter) is in bad situation, often hopeless

my (imaged, never tried to do it really) solution was bit different - to offer ownership of units to another player, together with some compensation (this should be rather easy to do in worldedit, at least simpler than transferring player into another team - this would include transferring towers in exact or mirrored position, which i suspect is pretty hard to do).

good player can often play as two players (in terms of building, sending, etc), and if awarded with resources to be able to make things bearable - he would probably stay in game and be able to make leaver position useful, to an extent, at least.

on the other hand, future UE/X3 version will probably have 'events', in which worst player get some help to improve situation, and possibly decide not to leave afterwards - this will be optional mode...

EDIT: LEVEL17

any values given for levels are approximate in nature - level17 is notorious as one of hardest since legion beginning. reason: siege = 125% dmg to fortified, others ~70-80%. this is largest difference in game, so 4500 worth of normal/pierce is lot less in real life than 4500 of siege. if this level is problematic for some players, it would be wise to prepare for it better, either by overbuilding, either by making bunch of siege damage units. -debug in solo mode can be also used to find values more suiting for your playstyle...

Gin.A Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:08 pm

I agree with your suggestion with regards to the compensation method. I also agree that a switch system is technically complex and hard. I was also considering such a possibility that the resources of a leaver could be transferred to the staying player/ equally divided amongst players who stayed. (It is somewhat similar to the -unlock system of dota without item sharing)
However, the offering ownership of units can get somewhat tedious and cumbersome for the remaining player to control, especially if he only has a relatively small amount of time to prepare units on both sides of the warfront. Also, psychologically speaking, it may advocate ragequitters/ noob leavers to leave without thought since their leaving has little impact (this may further encourage leavers). Alternatively, we know that each player usually has a unit value and income. I suggest 50% of the unit value and 50% of the income be transferred to remaining players.
To further illustrate my point,
E.g. Player Red has 3000 value, and 100 income. If he leaves, there are 3 players left.
Hence, every player will get (3000 x 0.5)/3 = 500 gold as well as (100 x 0.5)/3 = +17 income to every remaining player.
This foundationally strengthens the game-stayers' hope factor, and also reduces the cumbersome and tedious nature of a single player controlling multiple warfronts.
(Envision a lone player controlling 3 leavers' units, that would mean managing 4 accounts of lumber/income as well as building units within 20-45 seconds, which is pure madness)

Slightly out of context, but maybe a voteban should be allowed for leavers. (avoid auto-ban)

**von_Oberstain** Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:44 pm

hmmmmm, game design is allowing unequal number of players - normally, only real handicap comes from increased summon send, which is not too hard to defend from, and arena battles, which are somewhat balanced. monetary award in dota comes from fact that leaver was likely killed number of times, and gave monetary advantage to other team already, so his team must get something in return. legion leaker doesn't give such advantages to opponents, and dividing his property would actually gave advantage to his team (i guess i would personally spent all money received on lumbering, waiting income to "kick-in"). if monetary compensation is given, i guess it should be capped to much lower than 1/3 - at the beginning, 100g means a world to experienced player (ok, in UE/X3 it does, i played limited MEGA games, but it still looks a lot to me).

controlling two players armies is not that hard - this is from experience, i play 1v2 in lan when we have only 3 players (i play on two computers next to each other). probably, i lose less than 10% efficiency due to mistakes - i guess if one mouse and keyboard is used, this would drop. the takeover idea was to give control of units/wisps to other player, but never join their funds, but rather have them apart - in which case, leaver (player spot) should be awarded, based on comparison to other players, cause his position might be hopeless

Gin.A Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:53 pm

Hmmm you do have a point, but I would rather stick to dividing of leaver's assets to remaining players, than offering control of units to other players.
I believe we can scale the compensation accordingly to balance out the handicaps. Having said that, I'd like to hear HuanAK's take on this matter.
Either way, may something be done about the leaver issue in the next version.

Visitor Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:24 am

Whats going on with the new version mate?

Dazzlee Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:08 am

Ok guys, i finally had a nice game with an aura from beginning which i could protect, even those hard lvls 14,15, 17 just barely touched them. (Couldnt find any replay so i had to play a lot of games Shocked

)

Have fun watchin it

http://uploaded.to/file/aav74l52

OsiRyS Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:33 am

GO GO GO

Pls unleash your imagination and make things to raise from nothing cheers

When then new version it will be ready? Question

Captain_Aizen Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:46 am

Alright I have a new idea that should REALLY REALLY REALLY be put into the game. When the king is below 10% hp, any player should be able to use his allies heal ability. 7/10 of my last games the king was killed when players still had unused heals.

It's totally bullshit that you can play the game well, not leak, do everything right and then the game ends because a player failed to use the heal that was RIGHT THERE. It just waste everyone's time invested into the game. Sometimes you tell a player 20 times to heal the king and still they manage to miss it because A) they are trolling you B) Have down syndrome or C) They decided to turn get up from their computer to go do something else. Like I said, it completely ruins the game, if the king is getting super low on HP and there's 3 players with heals available, they should either automatically be used or another player should be allowed to use in their place.

Now tell me, that's a bad idea. I don't think anyone can argue against this.

Dazzlee Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:12 am

Its a Teamgame, if some1 trolls or isnt a teamplayer u have bad luck.

Ofc it happens to me too and im furious like hell, especially after 1 hour. Otherwise i had 59minutes fun Wink

Its a game, so chill and dont take it so seriously.

Captain_Aizen Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:40 am

Dazzlee wrote:Its a Teamgame, if some1 trolls or isnt a teamplayer u have bad luck.

Ofc it happens to me too and im furious like hell, especially after 1 hour. Otherwise i had 59minutes fun Its a game, so chill and dont take it so seriously.

Well of course it's just a game but saying "chill and dont take it so seriously" is sort of copout for not taking the time to make a valid improvement. I don't how such a change would hurt the game do you?

**NERV** Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:48 am

Captain_Aizen wrote:Alright I have a new idea that should REALLY REALLY REALLY be put into the game.

Why would you use your heal on enemy king when they don't wanna play/use their own heal? You only have one charge, they're probably going to screw up next round too, Imo it's better just to start a new game and hope for decent players.
Also, what if he was just waiting until the last second and then you and him heal at the same time? What if they trick you into using your heal? You're going to waste your heal, your team heal. If they miss the heal, you can't do anything about it.

If you want to, you can play with dazzle and everybody else in this forum, i'm sure you're going to find good opponents.

explode26 Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:04 pm

when is it comes ? cant wait for it Smile

)

**NERV** Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:13 pm

explode26 wrote:when is it comes ? cant wait for it )

Not sure, but its never a good idea talking about dates when you're in beta, but huan's beta usually don't take long.

Captain_Aizen Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:26 pm

NERV wrote:
Captain_Aizen wrote:Alright I have a new idea that should REALLY REALLY REALLY be put into the game.

Why would you use your heal on enemy king when they don't wanna play/use their own heal? You only have one charge, they're probably going to screw up next round too, Imo it's better just to start a new game and hope for decent players.
Also, what if he was just waiting until the last second and then you and him heal at the same time? What if they trick you into using your heal? You're going to waste your heal, your team heal. If they miss the heal, you can't do anything about it.

If you want to, you can play with dazzle and everybody else in this forum, i'm sure you're going to find good opponents.

I think you misunderstood, I'm talking about you have allies with heals and they fail to use it which ends the game. A lot of times it's already been established who's turn it is to heal next, but they just... miss it like a fucking retard lol i donno why. It's a way better situation to possibly have 2 players both waste the team heal at same time, rather than have one retard say he's going to heal and then he goes afk instead. You know what I mean?

Dazzlee Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:53 pm

Of course, i totally see your point and as i said it annoys me too.

I dont know on which realm you play but you should try UC Clan on Europe, there are many good players and they start private games or play on there bot Legion TD Mega 3.41! #

Even PanicX is a Member of their Clan and Kuro and hk, a friend of mine (who is really good) and i play on that bot. Just search for some good players and Legion is so much more fun because.

1 Enemie team is much stronger
2 You see strategies from your mates which you never seen before
3 Its a real challenge

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