2.8 beta default mode

This is going to be a great map once the bugs and balances have been worked out

One small note regarding the default mode:

In version 2.7b the default is -apmmhgggcbx3 if red doesn't type anything (this is the only change I made apart from removing -7 debug trigger)... and I can tell from my bot logs that people really seem to appreciate it.

For version 2.8, I guess something like -apmmhgggx3 or -apmmhgx3 would make sense.

yeah, i think majority will be happy with longest trigger - others are easier to type

Saucer wrote:This is going to be a great map once the bugs and balances have been worked out

One small note regarding the default mode:

In version 2.7b the default is -apmmhgggcbx3 if red doesn't type anything (this is the only change I made apart from removing -7 debug trigger)... and I can tell from my bot logs that people really seem to appreciate it.

For version 2.8, I guess something like -apmmhgggx3 or -apmmhgx3 would make sense.

I have had 2 major problems whilst hosting this 2.7b map of yours. The first being if a player does enter the -7 to enable debug and enters the kasa or drewno commands they leave the game but their units all stay and so do their waves. This essentially ruins the game after a few rounds as you can imagine.

Secondly I have a replay where a player has successfully cheated and given himself 50 gold at the start. The mode was sdmmhgggcmcbx3 which ofc only gives 250 starting gold. He built two Flying Machines and then upgraded one of those x2 Flying Machines = 160gold + Gyro Upgrade = 140gold = Grand Total of 300gold.

I watched the replay a couple of times. Indeed he starts with 250 gold but about 20 seconds into the game he gives himself 50 gold. When asked how he did that he said he just can. Could you give us an explanation as to how this is possible? The culprit being Name = love[me] IP=62.101.174.90 Server=europe.battle.net.

i didn't do 2.7b, saucer did.

neither him, nor me have open code to 2.7, but he's professional programmer and removed it manually without actually using editor. through that process, some bugs may have appeared (as this is very hard map to edit), like the one you described. if it happens again, i suggest not to use this version, switch to 2.8beta when it's fixed (it may take a bit more time than expected)

currently 2.8 it seems still has A LOT of bugs with it, the -X3 mode makes the boss at lvl 10 pretty much impossible, i have yet to see a game get past lvl 10 in 2.8 on -X3. Also the king bugs out when you try to upgrade it, the health will not go up. Hopefully this is an issue that can be fixed easily though.

von_Oberstain wrote:yeah, i think majority will be happy with longest trigger - others are easier to type

good point. my vote is also on that one (-apmmhgggx3)

Moona wrote:
I have had 2 major problems whilst hosting this 2.7b map of yours. The first being if a player does enter the -7 to enable debug and enters the kasa or drewno commands they leave the game but their units all stay and so do their waves. This essentially ruins the game after a few rounds as you can imagine.

Thank you for reporting this.

Let me just clarify something first: if the debug code get entered, a "this username tried to use an old debug command to get x amount of gold" type of message is displayed to all players. A public shaming if you will, but the cheater does not get kicked from the game. (I didn't think that would be a good idea, e.g. it might ruin the game in some cases, and I didn't want to interfere with the game too much.)

Some people might think that he got kicked, but it's just that he decides to leave when he find that the code didn't work.

Anyhow, I'm curious as to the circumstances of the situation you observed.

I have witnessed 2 cheaters myself, who subsequently left the game, and their units/wave disappeared just fine. I think a total of about 4-5 cheaters spotted by my bot admins, and they did not observe the problem.

One thing does come to mind, and thats an old bug that goes back to the original 2.7 map and perhaps earlier, and if I recall correctly, it is triggered by the rather buggy -kick command of the map. That command has a lot of issues, and should get fixed or disabled.

It could be that red used the -kick command on the cheater and this is what caused the problem you describe.

Hang on a sec... yup, got it! Found this old thread:

-kick player but Mosters still come

It's on old bug. However, if a -kick command was not the cause of the problem you describe, then please get back to me.

Fortunately, people can use !votekick with the games that I host. Normal hosting does not have that privilige, and red might be tempted to use -kick.

Moona wrote:
Secondly I have a replay where a player has successfully cheated and given himself 50 gold at the start. The mode was sdmmhgggcmcbx3 which ofc only gives 250 starting gold. He built two Flying Machines and then upgraded one of those x2 Flying Machines = 160gold + Gyro Upgrade = 140gold = Grand Total of 300gold.

I watched the replay a couple of times. Indeed he starts with 250 gold but about 20 seconds into the game he gives himself 50 gold. When asked how he did that he said he just can. Could you give us an explanation as to how this is possible? The culprit being Name = love[me] IP=62.101.174.90 Server=europe.battle.net.

Thank you for the details. I've tried to reproduce this, but I couldn't. Could you please email me the replay (to the email address in my profile).

von_Oberstain wrote:
[...]
neither him, nor me have open code to 2.7, but he's professional programmer and removed it manually without actually using editor. through that process, some bugs may have appeared (as this is very hard map to edit), like the one you described.
[...]

Exactly, and it was difficult code to navigate. But I did my best of course, to avoid introducing new bugs. However, it'd be silly of me to completely rule out the possibility that something got messed up in the process.

I've checked up on most of the bugs that I've experienced in 2.7b, and I have so far been able to verify that they existed in 2.7 as well.

I can do another fix if something bad shows up, but I'd rather see that this new and exciting 2.8 version gets to a state where its fully playable, so that people can start playing that one instead

Well done on the release of the 2.7b version. The above bug I mentioned obviously is no longer a problem as people do not get kicked. I like the big, bold warning message when someone tries to enter the -7 debug trigger, a nice touch. I could not find the replay that i mentioned above, Ill will ask a friend who was playing and see if he has it saved.

The only thing I think REALLY needs changing is an increase in time before it defaults to set mode. It is almost impossible to type the mode you want in that time. Its no problem for me as I have my modes hot keyed but for red who may want to at least read what the modes mean before he enters them should be given more time. 25-30seconds seems perfect for this.

already at 20 sec. if he reads or types that slowly, he could pause game, but i believe most people know their modes already. 2 seconds per character is more than enough.

von_Oberstain wrote:already at 20 sec. if he reads or types that slowly, he could pause game, but i believe most people know their modes already. 2 seconds per character is more than enough.

I was actually talking about the 2.7b map

right, yes the time in 2.7b is indeed much shorter (8 seconds), because it was the safest way for me to implement the default mode, given the situation (no access to original code), so i had to add it in at an early stage.

but from what i can tell, people are handling this fine, by either copy-pasting in the code, or hitting pause (which is already somewhat common practice) and then typing in the code.

figured that this was much better than no default at all, because the no default did quite often result in abandoned games (red afk, not knowing what to type, etc.) and this was very upsetting to people.

on the other hand, the response i've seen on the 2.7b default mode has been very positive, although i'll admit the time window is too short as it is.

appreciate your input

if i do a revision to 2.7b then i will try to increase the time window a little, but 2.8 beta is nearing completion now, so to speak, so... yeah.

and for what its worth, i think 20 sec is reasonable for 2.8 map... if inexperienced people need more time, to read the mode list or whatever, then they should hit the pause button. i'd say 25-30 sec max.

Saucer wrote:right, yes the time in 2.7b is indeed much shorter (8 seconds), because it was the safest way for me to implement the default mode, given the situation (no access to original code), so i had to add it in at an early stage.

but from what i can tell, people are handling this fine, by either copy-pasting in the code, or hitting pause (which is already somewhat common practice) and then typing in the code.

figured that this was much better than no default at all, because the no default did quite often result in abandoned games (red afk, not knowing what to type, etc.) and this was very upsetting to people.

on the other hand, the response i've seen on the 2.7b default mode has been very positive, although i'll admit the time window is too short as it is.

appreciate your input

if i do a revision to 2.7b then i will try to increase the time window a little, but 2.8 beta is nearing completion now, so to speak, so... yeah.

and for what its worth, i think 20 sec is reasonable for 2.8 map... if inexperienced people need more time, to read the mode list or whatever, then they should hit the pause button. i'd say 25-30 sec max.

Yah in most cases it isn't a problem. However as I'm sure you are aware when the game is paused the modes and their descriptions cannot be seen by red. So in a sense if Red isn't completely onto it he is flying blind so to speak

Thats actually a very good point.

It would be better if the mode list didn't disappear when paused.

What I hate about 2.7b is that x3 gets almost unplayable after lvl 25. 1 game the whole team had around 1000 income each, huge armies. Game lagged just from units being next to each other. Then people started crashing and dropping out at lvl 31 due to lack of system resources. I have 6 gigs of ram and a core2duo at 2,66ghz and I crashed as well. Please add a command to disable visual effects and run on simpler AI. Can be something that all players must agree on and is used during the game, not before.