About the mode GG

I dont think it will help. People seem to be very used to king's ups cost and so to imba summons. Goblin will not be imba, plz dont bring him as example of high income race due to he is too good now but he wont be soon. But I like one of ur ideas - Advanced barracks should be closed for lvls 1-10, I will try to do this. Thx for this feedback.

hmmm not sure the closing the advanced barrack will help from lvl 1-10. The problem is that in the normal barracks you have 3 aura units which are devastating on level 7 and 8 (3* waves). Command aura (120 lumber), regen aura (100 lumber) and armour aura (150 lumber) = 370 lumber. You lose some income effeciency by spamming aura units on these 2 levels but they do the job better then advanced barrack units. The NS (no save mode) is a better solution then disabling advanced barracks (just my opinion )

mmm, I think there are big problem with current income system, for example :

1, at lvl15, top incomer will have 300+ gold, at the same level creep wave only yield like 300-350
2, at level 20, top incomer will have 500+ gold/wave, and creep wave only give 300-400gold
3, at level 25, top income will have 1000+ gold/wave, and creep wave only give 400 gold/wave
4, at level 30, top incomer should have 1500 gold/wave, while creep wave still give 400's gold
5, lvl35 =2000 income, lvl40 = 3000 income.

that is for x3 mode, it getting worse on x1 mode because the amount of income become more important in x1 mode.

my calculation math is base on +100 income per wave after 25+ workers(about 3 kraken per wave), don't forget you guy will add new worker limit & lumber research too !! so the actual growth rate can be as high as 4-5 kraken per wave( +150/round.)

so how do you balance the new lvl31-40 ? and how much gold do creep give ?

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I think we should make a gold mine + forest, so player can decide wood cutting or gold mining strategy.
wood cutting will bring back 5/7/9/11/13 lumber (current lumber take 20/23/25/27/29 second per return)
gold mining will bring back 1/2/3/4/5 gold (mining will took 30/35/40/45/50 second per return)
mining and wood cutting will share same upgrade call "advance worker training"

for example, if you have 30 workers, you will get 150 income per 50 second, or 390 lumber per 29 second.
if you want max income, you will get around 300 per wave with zero lumber.
if you want max lumber, you will have zero income but you can buy 2-4 kraken per wave

the idea is... player will never get insane amount of income. and they can choose either offensive or defensive (eg, workers on gold mine for defensive, lumber for offence)

anyway, do you think game is balance if player can reach 1000+ income per wave at lvl25-30. or 2000+income for lvl35-40 ?

guy4 wrote:hmmm not sure the closing the advanced barrack will help from lvl 1-10. The problem is that in the normal barracks you have 3 aura units which are devastating on level 7 and 8 (3* waves). Command aura (120 lumber), regen aura (100 lumber) and armour aura (150 lumber) = 370 lumber. You lose some income effeciency by spamming aura units on these 2 levels but they do the job better then advanced barrack units. The NS (no save mode) is a better solution then disabling advanced barracks (just my opinion )

GOSH! How stupid I am! I already told u all guys I implement a bit less restrictive -ns mode as a MUST not an option.

Me wrote:2. Permament changes [...]:
- limited lumber at the end of each round - if more lumber - disappear without giving income (about 40/round), similar to -ns but greatly nerfed. The point of it is to reduce offensive potential of pure incomers.
- no more hp boost on x2 and x3 but no collision for all units (or highly decreased)
- penalty of losing a worker if leak 100%.
- possibility to have 1 (!) autobuy on any creep/king upgrade/wisp.
- reduced waiting for each summon.
- NO aura summons any more, better ones gonna give less income, other special skills stay.
- one way to have King's upgrades slightly cheaper. U can buy +1 regen, attack, hp in 1 pack costing 300 lumber (3x100) but giving 11 income (3x3+2).

It explains everything except one. I will implement NO changes in balance except units from new races to basically egZe's versions, which are... one in fact. Rest will be mine and all these things refer to them.

Probably it will mean that all evrsions except my will be imbalanced some way. To be honest it's in my interest. Of course my maps won't be balanced straight away but forth/fifth version should be stable.

About the rest things - I will not change egZe's map almost at all. Just some most critical balance changes such as FM, Shredder + balancing 31-40 lvl.

About mines - I thought about it but I am afraid it can destroy the climate of the game so it will be useable only for -fm (fun mode). One thing - wisps gather lumber, workers would gather gold. Upgrades separately or not, gonna see...

I dont think it's balanced, egZe thought same so he limited wood gathering greately and I will use his system to his version, my ones will be a bit different, don't ask me how different, idk yet.

@PK9 I like the sound of your idea a lot but when looking at it practically it might be hard to make it feasible and like Proc says worried about balancing it. So lets say workers still cost 50 gold and can gather lumber or gold. So normally a worker can deliver 5 wood per turn and it takes about 17 secs (I think but a bit rusty - 12 secs for walking and 5 secs for cutting) so with 4 trips (20 wood will be delivered taking 68 secs) and that would give 1 income. in 68 secs you could either get about 18 lumber or about 2 gold. So from that I would much prefer the 1 income compared to 2 gold or 18 lumber. So now the next question would it be feasible to buy workers at all or just build if they were returning lets say about 26 lumber per turn or 3 gold per turn. So on 3 gold per turn on average (the early rouns are shorter and less leaking hopefully , and the later rounds are longer and more leaking - so its just a rough estimate) it would take just over 16 rounds for your worker to be paid back. Not really worth it in my opinion. Just getting lumber and no income will feed the other team for killing your summons and you will become weaker as you would have spent money on workers instead of towers.

So either the amount of lumber would need to be increased (which will make it imblanced as then summons could get ridiculous) or the amount of gold per turn the worker returns would need to be at least 4 or 5 gold making it pay off faster. The other potential problem with this is you ould end up shortening games even further using this apporach because guys might go the lumber route and try kill the oppoenent early and if they dont succeed they will be weka and the opponent can kill them easily.

Just food for thought but I do like the way you are thinking with it.

guy4:

I forget about to say something about income, if we add gold mine, then we don't need income system(from summon or king) anymore.

if they want income, they can go mining. if they want lumber, they can send workers to tree.

for example, in next version, we only have 1 wisp for cutting tree, max research will yield 13 lumber per seconds (about 2-3 kraken in 60 second). if player send this wisp to mine, it will collect x gold per second (map maker can decide how much gold with max research).

as you can see, the map maker can actually control how much income a player can get. unlike current system player can have 1000 income or higher which sound crazy. I think income should be controlled to make it less than half of creed's wave gold.

also for guy4, I read somewhere about worker on LTD 1 forum :
- unresearch worker will take 20-1 seconds per return(5 wood)
- lvl 1 research will take 23 seconds per return(7 wood)
- lvl 2 research wil take 25 seconds per return(9 wood)
- lvl 3 research will take 27 for 11 wood
- lvl 4 research will take 29 second for 13 wood

so if you know average time for each wave, then you can work out average income generation rate