(Nortan) Balance suggestions

Go down

(Nortan) Balance suggestions Empty (Nortan) Balance suggestions

Post  Nortan on Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:47 pm

The suggestions forums seems to be gone so I thought I might post my ideas in the general forum. These are changes that I feel would be appropriate to make certain undesirable units more used and to nerf some of the units that are a bit too strong. Some suggestions are just minor buffs that could make certain decent units more useful and obviously these might be some unnecessary changes. The types of changes I'm proposing would definitely make the game a bit easier by making some ignored units rather powerful. Sorry if these seem like they would just make units imbalanced or too good (that wasn't my intention).


gnoll savage: Increased hp from 430 to 450. Armor changed to medium. Previously [4.77] ehpg this boosts it to [5.00] ehpg and medium armor would be more useful than its current light armor.

ogre pulverizer: Hp increase from 630 to 660. ehpg boost from [4.67] to [4.88]. Just a small amount but similar to goul it could really use the small boost.

harpy/medusa: Range increase from 300 to 400. It is practically impossible to effectively tank for this unit even with melee and it's a shame cause it's poison ability is good. With a range increase to just 400 this would be much more useful.


Peewee: ....eh....who cares?

Cyborg: Attack speed reduced from 1.2 to 1.1. Dmg reduced accordingly to 109 - 123 [.502] dpspg. Helps with lvl 1 - 4 similar to how zombie was adjusted. Could be decreased to 1.0 but that might be a bit too much must for the first few lvls and makes it less reliable on lvl 4.

Leviathon: Glad to see the 350 range increase it's something I would suggest. hp increase from 1420 [3.38] ehpg to 1650 [3.93]. It was a bit too frail in the past and with the increase in gold cost it seems especially frail at only 1420 health for such a bulky unit, expensive unit that until the increase to 350 ranged oftened ended up splitting dmg with front line units with it's 300 range.

Neotank: Range reduced to 225. Hp increased to 1550. [4.30] ehpg (effective health per gold) while [3.94] ehpg previously. Dmg reduced from 143 - 159 [.461] dpspg to 128 - 144 [.420] dpspg. I'll just say that this thing is not an amazing tank with it's low ephg and it's long 450 range and personally I would prefer that neotank function more as a tank. This would allow it to work better with melee units splitting dmg instead of sitting in the back and it would make a better actual tank for ranged units which are 400 - 500 ranged and fight with neotanks and doomsday for space.

Doomsday: Range reduced to 225. Hp increased to 3400 [4.30] ehpg while previously a super low [3.82]. Dmg reduced from 303 - 353 [.461] dpspg to 273 - 323 [4.19] dpspg. That seems like really high hp but for 790 gold it's not that good. That fortified armor with the hp increase would make this a bit better for tanking while not being as good as assault tank, hydra, hades.

Of course at the end of the game long ranged units are more useful than short ranged so that 450 range could be useful and for some levels you really want that ranged siege dmg instead. I have an idea for neotank and doomsday that I think would be really neat. Similar to soul of hero neotank could have an ability where it is designed to tank better as I have made it with less dmg, less range, and more hp and the ability switches it to an assault form with the 450 range, 1420 hp, and a dmg adjustment to 148 - 162 [.481] dpspg. Doomsday would be similar and change back to 450 range, 3015 hp, and a dmg adjustment of 316 - 366 [.480] dpspg. This is just my ideas though and I understand if they seem impractical. I will say that I think neo and doom are overrated and that people tend to think they are better than what they actually are. Basically it makes neo/doom a little more similar to steamroller/assault tank with slighlty less range, slightly more dpspg and slightly less ehpg, while also giving it the versatility to become an adequate ranged dps unit slightly buffed from it's previous incarnation. If the whole ability 'stance' swapping seems too much I do think that neo/doom would be better off as a more tank oriented unit and that 450 range it has as well as it's low hp has always made it feel like an awkward dps unit for me (it's not terrible but it's not good either).


Thunderbird: A cost adjustment is needed and the food cost should also be returned making it 2 food total. After the initial changes to thunderbird it was quite balanced at [5.00] dpspg with it's 155g upgrade cost and 2 food. When the second food and 20g was removed from it it become and new overpowered unit at it's current [.546] dpspg. If a total revert to 155g upgrade cost is undesirable even a small increase would help put it back in place. At 150g upgrade cost it would be [.510] dpspg and at 145g upgrade cost it would be [.522] dpspg and similar to things like machine turret.

Tree of Life: So we all know how useless this is even when you aren't comparing it to tree of knowledge. I propose a hp increase as high as 2750 [4.10] ehpg from it's current 2350 [3.51] ehpg if not matching tok's 2570 [3.84] ehpg. The secondary healing effect of ToL that heals 6 randoms units for 150 is generally wasted with the way focus works in this game and imo it should be replaced. I suggest either making it a 5 hps healing aura that stacks with witch doctors healing aura (but not other ToL) or having it create a healing puddle upon death larger but similar to highbornes storm geyser ability and have it heal for 15 hps for 10 seconds. This would at least encourage players to use 1 or 2 ToL instead of ignoring it entirely for ToK and other t6 cause as it is currently experienced players know ToL is pretty worthless.


overseer: Range increase to 350 - 450. This is a good aura but like with captain it is often killed off early lowering it's benefit. A small range increase would at least help keep overseer behind melee and perhaps even some ranged such as assault tank for a bit more longevity. Dmg increase from 64 - 76 [.359] to 70 - 82 [.390]. This is just a tiny increase that makes overseer slightly less useless on lvl 4.

keeper of souls: range increase to 350 - 450 for same reason as overseer (easier to keep alive for it's aura). dmg increase from 120 - 132 [.305] dpspg to 132 - 144 [.334] just to give him a bit more power. It's overall dps is still pitiful.

Doppelganger: crit chance increased from 10% to 15% to match it's evasion boost. Estimated dpspg increase from [.457] to [.495].


Adept: attack speed reduced from 1.45 to 1.3 for a dpspg increase from [.431] to [.481]. Health increased to 700 [4.38] hpgs from 560 [3.5] hpgs. With it's short range, bad dps, and low hp as well as it's unhelpful light armor adept has been completely ignored by experienced players that know to not use it. Alternatively, a decrease in cost by 20 gold to 140g would increase dpspg to [.492] without any attack speed adjustment and at the same time boost ehpg to [4.67]. Reducing the cost by 20g would be better imo for giving adept a much needed buff.

Aqua spirit: The reduction to aqua spirits hp might not have been the best method for nerfing aqua spirit when you could make a small adjustment to attack speed. Currently it is one of the best beginning units with a massive [.583] dpspg rating. Changing it's attack speed to 0.9 from 0.8 would reduced that dpspg all the way to [.517] or [.547] if only reduced to 0.85. Upon upgrading to Oceanus the dpspg is only [.501] and not as impressive which is why mass aqua spirits has been rather powerful and lead to it being nerfed from 200 hp to 150 hp and now buffed back up to 175 hp.


Wraith: We've all learned that this has mediocre dps and that it is completely outclassed by meridians whos debuff does not stack with wraith or mercurial. What I propose is completely scrappy it's ability and increasing it's dmg slightly to make wraith and mercurial viable options. At 16 - 22 dmg warith would be balanced at [.501] dpspg and at 17 - 23 wraith would be slightly strong at [.527] dpspg. That is an increase from 14 - 20 [.448] dpspg. Also a slight increase to hp to 300 [2.61] ehpg would help it take a bit more dmg compared to it's current 230 [2.00].

Mercurial: Increase in dmg from 35 - 40 [.429] to 42 - 47 [.509] would make mercurial a decent ranged dps and at 43 - 48 [.520] it would be a reliable ranged dps slightly short of high priests current [.529] dpspg. Hitpoint increase from 440 [1.66] to 700 [2.64].


medicine man: dmg increase from 39 - 55 [.305] to 57 - 73 [.422]. A small buff to make massing medicine man for the healing not have as large of a gimping effect on dps and still leaves it inferior in dps to priests which also contribute healing. This boost won't specifically help medicine man on any level except allowing it to kill in one hit on lvl 2. If we accept that it should be on par with priests [.446] a boost to 61 - 77 [.448] dpspg would be needed and although it would still fail to kill things on lvl 3 it would leave them very low hp and could potentially kill things on lvl 4 with a high damage roll.

oracle: Increase from 87 - 109 dmg [2.69] dpspg to 115 - 137 dmg [.333] dpspg just so its doing something other than providing it's dmg reduction. Still low dps.

Bigfoot: mana decreased to 15 matching minotaurs. Mana regen remains the same but stomp dmg reduced from 75 to 60. Health increase from 2465 [4.11] to 2615 [4.36] ehpg. A 25% reduction in mana will allow an extra stomp before bigfoot dies. Currently it's difficult to get more than 1 stomp off before it dies with 17 - 19 mana.


sky dragon: dmg increased from 67 - 77 [.424] to 77 - 87 [.482]. Ability boosted dmg increased from 90 - 100 [.559] to 105 - 115 [.647]. Currently sky dragon dps is so bad there is no reason to use it and this would make it's dpspg high enough that it's worth using if you need to use it. Also it's ability should have a clear benefit against air so an extra boost would do it good. Also at that range it can one hit kill on lvl 5 making it at least desirable there if no where else. At 80 - 90 dmg sky dragon would have a dpspg of [.500] exactly and match up with a lot of other common magic attackers like druids, violiet, and revenant. That may be a bit strong combined with it's ability even though air levels are uncommon.

Mermaid/highborne: attack speed reduction from 1.1 to 1.0. Increase in mermaid dpspg from [.339] to [.373]. Increase in highborne dpspg from [.289] to [.318] NOT calculating geyser dmg. Their abilities are great but the dmg or attack rate could use a small boost imo.

King claw/bottom feeder: attack speed increased from 1.2 to 1.1 seconds. dpspg increase from [.407] to [.444] for king claw and [.426] to [.465] for bottom feeder. It could use a little love even if it will only be used for its sell ability.


Very little adjustments needed for arctic now that dragons have been buffed. Ice troll could benefit from a small range increase to ~400 so that azure dragon could potentially tank better for it as well as a few other things but ice troll is also fine staying 300 range.


NOTHING. Solid race altogether.


Elite archer: dps reduction to 13 - 13 and attack reduction to 0.6. This would be a dpspg reduction from [5.36] to [5.16]. Previously archers have been 13 - 13 dmg in 3.41 BUT they had an attack speed of .55 seconds and cost 5 less gold at 205 instead of 210. The 0.6 would also match the speed of regular archers. I'm honestly not sure if this would even be a clear nerf but archers could still use a small nerf of some sort.

Royal Griffin: hp increase from 2600 [3.93] to 2850 [4.32]. I believe it could use this hp boost due to it's low 300 range and high gold cost it ends up taking a lot of front line dmg. For the gold investment it just a bit too frail.


Rider: This unit has desperately needed some attention and it really suffers due to it's range, low hp, and food cost. For 120 gold it should probably not cost 2 food. Range increase to 400+. Although it's ehpg is low at [3.33] it is probably fine as a frail ranged attacker. It has a decent dpspg of [.515] for a tier 1 unit but then again tuskar spearman has a dpspg of [.527]. It could actually have a chance to be pretty decent with just an increase in range. That 200 range was really holding it back IMO.

Nightsaber: Attack speed increased to 0.75 from 0.8. This would be an increase in dpspg from [.474] to [.505] Alternatively, gold cost could be reduced by 10. At 240 it has a dpspg of [.474] and is a bit lackluster compared to similar splash units like aqua spirit/oceanus and machine turrets but at a reduced cost of 230 gold it's a bit better at [.495] dpspg. At a 20 gold reduced cost of 220 it would reach [.517] dpspg and be almost on par with machine turret. Either way nightsaber could use a buff. Like with adept the 20g cost reduction seems like the way to go IMO.


Thrall: Like with royal griffan thrall is quite lacking in HP ([3.68] ehpg) for it's massive 680 gold cost as a front line melee tier 6 even when you account for it's 300 dmg stun ability and fortified armor. While an increase in hp would help it Thralls overall dps (including ability) is pretty lacking at ~290 dps it only has a dpspg of [.426]. What I suggest is a cost reduction of 40 gold for a total cost of 640. Honestly, a 60 gold reduction to 620g might even be needed (it does sounds like a lot). At 640 thrall has a ehpg of just [3.91] (at least fortified armor) as well as a dpspg of [.453]. At a 60g reduced cost of 620g it has some decent stats of [4.03] ehpg and [.468] dpspg. Overall I feel that warchiefs upgrade was way overpriced or thrall himself was simply not given very good stats. I may be underestimating the utility of those stuns, especially on bosses, but I'd say a 40g cost reduction is at least needed to balance him out somewhat.


With the dragon, zombie, and necrolyte buff undead is now pretty decent. Only thing to mention is like with ice troll for arctic acolyte/revenant has awkward range and an increase to even just 400 would make it easier to tank for as it is a decent tier 1 magic dps. It's still great at just 350 though just not as easy to protect. I'd say rider and harpy need a range boost more than troll or revenant.

Last edited by Nortan on Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:16 pm; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : typos and junk)

Posts : 172
Join date : 2012-05-25
Age : 28
Location : U.S. Michigan

Back to top Go down

(Nortan) Balance suggestions Empty fjkjfjf

Post  tasos on Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:24 pm

Hello, well i angree with u in general but mech needs some nerf in his tier2 units 2 they are very strong and he can get very good income without leaking any wave or leak just few, also for nature tree of life needs a boost in its stats but if u give it an aura ability then nature will get very overpowered, he already has an armor aura he can get very good income without many leaks and a boost like giving aura will affect all units,i mean if u give aura t tree of life its like buffing all of his units and none of his other units need buff but if its stats are better its ability wont need any change after all heals are good at 30 after bosses when u are w8ing the mobs t come since they restore the hp of all units offering better def t king, then paladin doesnt need boost in his tier 6 they have low range but they are very strong in general, what he needs is nerf on archers and boost in his tier 3(since they cost more than his archers and they are weaker) and some mp buffs in priests since they use thier first heal when wave starts so its wasted on  full hp targets, nerfing his archers without giving him other boost isnt good cos he already has desadvantages in all critical waves(REALY REALY BAD 10 ,14,REALY REALY bad 17 and 24,28 and 30 where they are depending on income and enemy sents) and any1 can ruin him when spaming in some waves like 1(and others ofc but thats for early) and make him lose some early income which is importand later on the game, then marine needs buffs in her tier 2 as u said but she also need buffs in her tier 1,well no1 cares about tier 1 but marines arent working anyway, her bottom feeders need some more boost in thier stats than u suggested cos u pay for an ability that practicaly does nothing in killing waves and if u want t sell later why would u build it in first place anyway?, then u said something about reducing attack speed on her tier 4 while ingresing the dps O.o didnt realy get what u said there but this unit needs attack speed boost cos it has good abilities but it wastes 2 much time on casting them and it`s autos are dealing lower dmg than they should, Marine in general is a cool builder but she has only 1 build and that`s stucking hydras she needs more gameplays and after all she isnt much of a lumberer, as for demi human shamans are maybe the worst magic dmg unit in game but if they had the heal ability from medics they would be a strong unit with low dps but 2 very cool abilities, and after all demi  human needs a realy strong unit.

Last edited by tasos on Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:27 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : a mistake)


Posts : 29
Join date : 2014-07-29
Age : 24
Location : θεσσαλονίκη, Ελλάδα

Back to top Go down

Back to top

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum